The Official Atheist Forums 'Bernie Sanders or Bust' Thread

[Baruch]

According to the party host certainly not the millenials.  They have no work ethic, or as he so wonderfully put, "they are not mission focused. "

This is why the Mormons are gaining on us ... their youth are "mission" focused.

[Shiranu]

According to the party host certainly not the millenials.  They have no work ethic, or as he so wonderfully put, "they are not mission focused. "

Very front end of the millennials here but... what a load of shit. I get so tired of people saying this :\.

I am working to pay my way through college while going deeper and deeper in debt in a country that's economy is getting fubar-d by the greed and corruption of the generations before me... and nearly every millennial I know works at least one job in the same situation (sometimes two). I'm sorry I wasn't born into a super-strong post war economy that didn't require as much schooling as it does now just to get an entry level job.

But yes... it's us who are lazy.

That said he does apparently have good taste in cars... so he has that going for him :P.

[trdsf]

Yeah, that's basically how I do it.  I voted for Obama twice--but I realize that campaign promises are basically hyperbole.  So I do not have a high bar for them to jump over.  History has a lot to do with it for me; what has either party actually done for the American people.  With that test in mind, I'd be crazy to vote for any Repub.

Agreed.  The last Republicans I supported were John Anderson and Lowell Weicker, both of whom eventually turned Independent.  To a person, the current crop wants to take away my right to marry whom I choose, and were I not on the county health plan through my job, they'd want to take my health insurance away too.  I see nothing to vote for there.

[Baruch]

Agreed.  The last Republicans I supported were John Anderson and Lowell Weicker, both of whom eventually turned Independent.  To a person, the current crop wants to take away my right to marry whom I choose, and were I not on the county health plan through my job, they'd want to take my health insurance away too.  I see nothing to vote for there.

Well, you are a fossil ;-)  I thought that politicians were supposed to figure out what was popular (not necessarily wise) and offer that to the public to buy their votes.  But today they only vote, they want to buy, is that of a millionaire.  And apparently millionaires are only interested in crazy or worthless candidates, or someone at least worth voting for (if you are a millionaire that is) would run of office.  I think it is bad schooling.  They think it is about ... running for orifice ;-(

[Jannabear]

All because his ideas aren't original, that doesn't mean that his ideas are bad, look at the countries that have embraced socialism, they're pretty much better then us when it comes to quality of life by many metrics, happiness, healthcare, homelessness, etc.

[gentle_dissident]

To survive as a county, a planet, we need to become a multicellular organism. That's my metaphor for socialism. I think we can eventually communicate, innovate, and automate to the point where the planet runs fairly smoothly. I hope the Doozers don't get bored with all that leisure time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWAAmwzURZk

[widdershins]

Please tell me you're not serious.  I mean, how do you think it'd go over if I said that I won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman?  That'd be a little fucked up, wouldn't it?

Just once, I'd like to have an election where the candidates' sex and race doesn't matter.

Are YOU serious?  You'd like to have an election where a candidate's sex and race didn't matter "just once"?  According to my history books we had 54 presidential elections where the candidates' race and sex didn't matter because they were simply assumed to be "white male".  I can see your point, but the "just once" thing...come on.

And yes, I do kind of like Hillary.  She's a strong woman and I think she would best be able to handle Republican nuttery.  She has dealt with it before, though not to this extent.  And, frankly, Bernie supporters are kind of beginning to piss me off a little.  I have one friend who, every time I see him, can't say enough about Bernie and asks me to put bumper stickers on my car and propaganda in my business.  Bernie supporters, in my experience, are opinionated and pushy, and I don't like being pushed.  Of course they're not all that way, but my experience has soured me on Bernie.

Basically, this. If the chief qualifier for president is stuff like "non-white" or "woman" rather than stuff like "competence" or "integrity," then I question the veracity of your priorities.

That's a very idealistic view, and one I would normally share, but there's a bigger picture here.  America needs to catch up with the civilized world.  We need to show that women truly can be anything they want.  We've been saying it for years, but it's still not really true.  It's like the Republican mantra, "Racism is dead."  We all WANT to believe it...so we do!  But it's not actually reality.  There's still a huge pay gap between men and women.  And look at Congress.  Total sausage fest still.  Maybe Hillary wouldn't be the best president ever.  Likely not.  But I'm thinking long term.  It's time to change the "old white guy" club of American politics.  It's time to inspire the little girls of today, to show them that they really can be anything.  And frankly, as long as it's not a Republican so that things like the EPA and Minimum Wage survive, I'm pretty much okay with whoever becomes president.

The policies of a single president matters very little in the long term.  But the ramifications of shattering the Old White Guy hold on politics can bring about long overdue change.  Maybe I'm the idealist here, but I like that idea.

[Hydra009]

Are YOU serious?  You'd like to have an election where a candidate's sex and race didn't matter "just once"?  According to my history books we had 54 presidential elections where the candidates' race and sex didn't matter because they were simply assumed to be "white male".  I can see your point, but the "just once" thing...come on.

In recent history, race and sex has played a role in a candidate's success or failure.  Obama's candidacy was rife with this issue, as have other candidates in recent history.  So yes, just once I'd like this to not be an issue in people's minds.  It goes without saying, but people who are not racist or sexist probably should not discriminate on the basis of sex or race.

America needs to catch up with the civilized world.  We need to show that women truly can be anything they want.  We've been saying it for years, but it's still not really true.  It's like the Republican mantra, "Racism is dead."  We all WANT to believe it...so we do!  But it's not actually reality.  There's still a huge pay gap between men and women.  And look at Congress.  Total sausage fest still.  Maybe Hillary wouldn't be the best president ever.  Likely not.  But I'm thinking long term.  It's time to change the "old white guy" club of American politics.  It's time to inspire the little girls of today, to show them that they really can be anything.

Thus, in your view, a candidate should get the nod simply for being the owner of a vagina, not unlike the sexist knuckle-draggers who similarly base their votes on the same shallow and irrelevant criteria.

The policies of a single president matters very little in the long term.  But the ramifications of shattering the Old White Guy hold on politics can bring about long overdue change.  Maybe I'm the idealist here, but I like that idea.

You're about 8 years late to that party.

[widdershins]

In recent history, race and sex has played a role in a candidate's success or failure.  Obama's candidacy was rife with this issue, as have other candidates in recent history.  So yes, just once I'd like this to not be an issue in people's minds.  It goes without saying, but people who are not racist or sexist probably should not discriminate on the basis of sex or race.

Maybe in very recent history.  As in, Obama and...wow.  It only takes one name to make it a huge problem in all of politics everywhere forever?  OF COURSE Obama's candidacy was rife with issues.  That's kind of the point.  So I'm guessing you're, what?  20?  25?  8 years is all of history to you?  Well, I'm a little older than that and saying "just once", it sounds a little ridiculous to me.  The subtle suggestion that since I considered race or gender as a factor means that I'm racist and sexist was a good touch, though.  It's not an honest argument, by any means, but it definitely makes you look good by making me look bad, and winning an argument is what it's all about, right?

Thus, in your view, a candidate should get the nod simply for being the owner of a vagina, not unlike the sexist knuckle-draggers who similarly base their votes on the same shallow and irrelevant criteria.

Yes.  That's exactly what I said.  No straw man there.  I never said anything about liking Hillary or being turned off by Bernie at all.  Nope, it was all about the vagina.  Only thing I mentioned, for sure.  Yeah, I definitely didn't list a few reasons I would like to see Hillary get elected, so her being a woman was certainly not just ONE of those reasons.  You are very good at seeing both sides of an argument fairly and not intentionally and egregiously misrepresenting the side you don't agree with, that's for sure.

You're about 8 years late to that party.

Yeah, because this president has been treated no different than any other through all of history.  We elected a black guy, now we can move on and never talk about it again.

I get it.  You don't think gender or race should be relevant in the election.  The problem is that it IS relevant in the election and always has been since pretty much the beginning of recorded history and probably considerably longer.  Your view is idealistic.  In an ideal world, it's definitely the way to look at it.  But we don't live in an ideal world.  We live in a shithole where we had to pass Affirmative Action laws which, guess what, discriminate against whites just so that non-whites would have a chance in the workplace and it STILL hasn't made things even remotely equal.  I was actually told a couple decades ago by the Wisconsin Job Service that since I was white they couldn't help me find a job until they had found a job for every single non-white they had in their records.  After EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had a job, ONLY THEN could they help me.  And STILL being white means I make more money than the average black man, not to even mention the average black woman.  I'm sorry it's not an ideal world, but it's just not.  Women and non-whites literally can't even win by cheating right now.  I'm sorry, but I think that's just a little bit bigger issue than which Democrat is the next president.  As long as it's not a Republican, I'm pretty happy about it.

[Unbeliever]

I'm more concerned about who will be appointed to the SCOTUS than most of the other things presidents do. Whomever gets the nod this time will be able to shape the court with maybe 2 or 3 judges.

All the conservatives need is anyone who can hold a pen.

[widdershins]

I'm more concerned about who will be appointed to the SCOTUS than most of the other things presidents do. Whomever gets the nod this time will be able to shape the court with maybe 2 or 3 judges.

All the conservatives need is anyone who can hold a pen.

Exactly my thoughts.  And if veto power weren't a concern for them, imagine the damage they could do.

[Unbeliever]

I hope all we can do is to imagine it - the reality would be grave.

[Unbeliever]

Bernie Sanders Campaign sets political fundraising record with $33 million in small contributions.

[Unbeliever]

[Hydra009]

The subtle suggestion that since I considered race or gender as a factor means that I'm racist and sexist was a good touch, though.  It's not an honest argument

Well, if you vote for or against a candidate based on their race or sex, then yes, that makes you a racist or a sexist.  There's simply no getting around that.  And of course, that makes your argument look bad.  Because it is bad.

If you don't want to look bad, perhaps you shouldn't have argued against voting for Sanders on the basis that he's an old white guy.  Because that's the shittiest and most superficial argument against the guy I've ever heard, and I've listened to lots of Trump speeches.

We elected a black guy, now we can move on and never talk about it again.

I'm simply pointing it out to show you that the white men club, as you so put it, is over.

I get it.  You don't think gender or race should be relevant in the election.

And apparently this is both a novel and highly contentious concept.  Too idealistic?  Maybe for 1960.  Currently?  Not in the slightest.

Women and non-whites literally can't even win by cheating right now.

You say that, but it's manifestly not true.  And that's a trend that will continue, provided we collectively reject identity politics, which unfortunately, seems far from dead.