Worship of the soldier

[drunkenshoe]

That is idiotic. I don't know of a single GI who joined for the money. I understand you have a corncob up your ass about military people, but you keep there voluntarily, cheeks tightly clinched.

And thinking that you think that^ means something, but cannot get what it actually sums up to if it really meant what you think it does....OW.

Anyway, you don't worry about my ass cheeks, sweety. Obviously, just one of them has better self awareness than you do.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Continue the whiney shit, you have the freedom to do so.

[SGOS]

As a veteran I'll say this --

Those folks that go on about "Our heroes in uniform" - likely never met the "heroes" in question. I did.

It's simply a bunch of people trying to "out pious" each other with their purported patriotism.

It sure has that look and feel, doesn't it?  I've thought he same thing ever since I started to wonder why it seems to be such a big deal.  I believe the "out pious each other" is part of the psychological dynamic, and it's part of the propaganda we are fed all through our lives.  It's so well established that the propaganda isn't that necessary anymore.

[drunkenshoe]

Continue the whiney shit, you have the freedom to do so.

Aww. But then you are the one that blurts a snarky, whiny, meaningless one liners every time I post into this thread, aren't you?  

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Aww. But then you are the one that blurts a snarky, whiny, meaningless one liners every time I post into this thread, aren't you?  

That's all you rate.

[godlessheathen]

The answer is in the culture that defines the active combatants; veterans as 'patriots', 'heroes', while they are just simple mercaneries; people who get paid to kill in uniform.

American culture is inherently hostile and militarist. It's closely connected with the country's gun issues too. How people percieve militarism; army, being a soldier. So much, that it is almost impossible for most Americans to understand there is difference between 'getting drafted' and 'making a choice' to travel to the other side of the world to invade countries or take part in derstruction of masses of people.

As long as it is taught people that it is a normal job to do, that culture will never end. It can't. You can just put down people as simple paid murderers and then tell them to go kill for their country and expect masses to join to do. You have to lie to them that they are special, proud and deserve high respect, because see, they put their lives in danger to protect their own people and democracy.


By the way, I don't get what 'firemen' is doing in that sentence? Fireman is a hero to the person who saves him or his property. What is the veteran doing?

A fireman is very similar to a soldier. A fireman puts out a fire for you. A soldier fights a battle for you.

(That's not to say all fires or battles SHOULD be fought.)

But both are a proxy for you.

After all - if you'd put out your own fire, we wouldn't need firemen, right???

Both are needed (in this society, which specializes so much in it's endeavors) - and from time to time, they do heroic things. (So too do "ordinary citizens" from time to time.)

Other times, it's simply a job.

[drunkenshoe]

A fireman is very similar to a soldier. A fireman puts out a fire for you. A soldier fights a battle for you.

(That's not to say all fires or battles SHOULD be fought.)

But both are a proxy for you.

After all - if you'd put out your own fire, we wouldn't need firemen, right???

Both are needed (in this society, which specializes so much in it's endeavors) - and from time to time, they do heroic things. (So too do "ordinary citizens" from time to time.)

Other times, it's simply a job.

I don't think you undertsand what I am saying. I am aware what firemen do as a job. However how can you claim that those two things are the same? Which by the way, was the main point of my previous post when I said the answer of your question and what people fail to see. You also avoided a lot.

A fire can be a result of an accident, a natural catastrophy, a crime... in people's own country and any of those cases there are victims to be helped and a person can easily see a fireman who took himself or his offspring or even pet out of flames as a hero.

Military service is not mandatory in the US. Veterans choose to have it as a career, hence the term I use; mercenary, which means they get paid to kill as a career.

What do those veterans accomplish? Who were/are they fighting for? What did the veterans in Afghanistan and Irak accomplish? Other than killing millions of people, causing more millions lose their homes and create more terrorist groups. We could say the same thing about previous wars but draftees do not have a choice.

How is that you don't see the fundamental conflict here? You are asking why there is a 'soldier is the hero culture' and that it is a bad thing, but you also see traveling at the other side of the world to kill and destroy as a simple job. Or there is something more disturbing like, you see that^ so normal you think why do they even have to promote it in some way in our culture, veterans are fine with it anyway.

It's not a simple job. It's NOT a job. And if somebody sees that as a simple job then there is something fundamentally wrong with them in the individual level and the culture they grow up with. Wearing a uniform doesn't make it different. They were/are not defending anything. They were/are not protecting anything. They just kill under orders.

And in this case, what are they going to do? Call them the team murderers and put dark skulls on their uniforms?

PS If you are going to come back to me with "I said not every battles should be fought" or "don't put words in my mouth" please don't bother, because I wrote the same thing in my previous post and you picked the last line by avoiding the rest.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's not a simple job. It's NOT a job. And if somebody sees that as a simple job then there is something fundamentally wrong with them in the individual level and the culture they grow up with. Wearing a uniform doesn't make it different. They were/are not defending anything. They were/are not protecting anything. They just kill under orders. 

This is why you're considered to be pathological. Get some counseling.

[stromboli]

You keep saying soldiers are being worshiped but who exactly is worshiping them? Nobody ever worshiped me.The only time I have ever seen anyone held up for veneration was my oldest son, because he was awarded a medal in Iraq. This by a pastor in a church I attended. He himself was a retired military man.

All the people who have been in the military on here disagree with you, Shoe, and you keep insisting they are being worshiped, but by who? The VA owes my son money he desperately needs right now and can't get. The VA in the US is burning records and not seeing people that need medical help, people with destroyed bodies and minds. I gave money to a homeless vet yesterday. There are many thousands on the streets in the US. We have lost more people to suicide here at home than we lost in war. Nobody is venerating them.

You see ads on TV about "a force for good" or "army of one" that is a recruiting tool. Just because you have a negative attitude about it doesn't prove your point. And I'm not the least bit ashamed of my service, so if you want to make me feel bad, sorry.

[drunkenshoe]

You keep saying soldiers are being worshiped but who exactly is worshiping them? Nobody ever worshiped me.The only time I have ever seen anyone held up for veneration was my oldest son, because he was awarded a medal in Iraq. This by a pastor in a church I attended. He himself was a retired military man.

I just used the word 'worship' once in the above post among all in the thread to refer to the OP; the title. Which is NOT mine. I didn't use the word 'worship' in any of my posts, I haven't used any expression of making a point with 'worshipping soldiers' either. I used the word 'heroism'. And I talked about American militarism. I compared it with what we have here which is mandatory and not a private industry.

All the people who have been in the military on here disagree with you, Shoe,

Of course, they are going to disagree with me, I am calling them murderers. Also as I repeated twice, your culture is so engrossed in militarism and wars as industries,  you people don't even comprehend the point of view of this is not being a job; that there is a BIG difference between the soldier who is fighting to defend his country and the one who travels to the other side of the world to invade and destroy for resource/money and power by choice. It's that alien to you.

My point, is that active combatants in American army are mercenaries. Mercenary does not have any positive meaning. NONE. (I found out that I need to remind it here.)In fact, it simply means killing for money.

and you keep insisting they are being worshiped, but by who?

Again. I tried to make an explanation from a different point. And if you check the thread, there are several other people who kept writing about 'heroism'. Not just me. Including the last veteran I responded to, he was saying exactly the ppopsite of other veterans. Not that personal accounts really matters because I am moving from a definition, but while you described all veterans 'humble' he described them as 'scumbags'. Again it doesn't really matter. I actually tried to tell why there is a 'soldier is the hero and must be respected culture'. And it is very openly expressed in my posts.

Because you cannot send people to kill in uniforms and call them murderers. That doesn't cut it. You need to make them 'heroes' and make people spread and swallow the bullshit that they are defending their country so they would send their sons to die or get crippled or commit suicide when they get back home.

The VA owes my son money he desperately needs right now and can't get. The VA in the US is burning records and not seeing people that need medical help, people with destroyed bodies and minds. I gave money to a homeless vet yesterday. There are many thousands on the streets in the US. We have lost more people to suicide here at home than we lost in war. Nobody is venerating them.

Do you honestly think I don't find that horrible? Were those soldiers drafted, strom? Or went in to the army to fight by their own choice? It was their choice wasn't it? Or family tradition?

You see ads on TV about "a force for good" or "army of one" that is a recruiting tool. Just because you have a negative attitude about it doesn't prove your point. And I'm not the least bit ashamed of my service, so if you want to make me feel bad, sorry.

I don't have a negative attitude trying to prove a point about American militarism. I have a negative attitude, because of that simple point that I repeated more than a dozen times her ein this thread. American militarism works for profit and benefit to gain power, exactly like the terrorist groups they are fighting against. There is no difference. Except those groups are born because of American politics; intervention and their supporters. Industry.

Why would I want to make you feel bad? Why do I become the bad guy when I say 'that's a fucking spade'? Put it the way you wish. Repeat it 100 times over, be proud, be happy, it doesn't change what it is. They are getting paid to kill abroad, return broken,crippled. Either they commit suicide or live in a horrible way. For money and in bigger scale again money and power. They are not defending/protecting anything. This is what they serve to. What do they accomplish? What did they accomplish in Afghanistan and Irak?

You were drafted, weren't you? You are older than my father if memory serves right. And when was this? You came from a difficult minority culture in the US, you had to invent your life a few times, you are a humble person by character. And you are making the mistake of evaluating the American militarism as something it is not because you were in it, bercause your sons are in it; as something unavoidable, inevitable; a simple service as a job and veterans as humble servants. It's not. It's a meat grinder for everyone. It doesn't serve to anything but itself.

[stromboli]

Whatever. I'm not wasting any more time on this.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Whatever. I'm not wasting any more time on this.

Nothing new, is it?

[hrdlr110]

WHAT? Pretty soon you are going to say our freeway system was by the military. Scientists, engineers, did all of that, not the military.

However,  freeway design was with military in mind. Intestate 5, for example, that runs from us-can border all the way down the west coast was engineered with one mile of straight every 5 miles.  This was done in case during war,  planes may need to land.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

  This was done in case during war,  planes may need to land.

And civilian pilots are very happy about this. It serves the public as well as the military.

[hrdlr110]

And civilian pilots are very happy about this. It serves the public as well as the military.

Maybe there was a time,  but good luck landing a jet on I-5 in California at anytime of the day or night these days!