Author Topic: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."  (Read 102217 times)

Offline Moloth

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2015, 04:01:12 PM »
My favorite thought on "being gay is a choice":

"If being gay is a choice, then choose to be gay right now. Choose to be gay, get on your knees and suck my cock... and ENJOY it. Go at it with relish and aplomb. If you can choose to do that, right here, right now, and graciously, lovingly suck on my penis until orgasm, mine OR yours, then i'll agree that being gay is a choice. You would have absolutely made your point and i will concede. Then, of course, you are free to choose to be straight immediately after.
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-

http://www.Moloth.com

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2015, 04:39:47 PM »
Even more than just that, choose to be gay...30 years ago or 50. If being gay was a choice there wouldn't have been any gay people in the past when they had *no* rights and it was even illegal in places, regularly assaulted for being gay, the specter of AIDS, probably disowned by your family, likely fired if you were found out. Why in the fuck would anyone choose that life? At least now there's been a lot of progress with rights and acceptance, but it still wouldn't be a very smart choice in a lot of places. This is pretty much the best time in history to be gay with a few localized exceptions, and they still take a lot of shit for it.
"When you landed on the moon, that was the point when God should have come up and said hello. Because if you invent some creatures and you put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, then you fucking turn up and say, 'Well done.' It's just a polite thing to do." - Eddie Izzard

Offline Moloth

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #62 on: February 20, 2015, 03:03:59 PM »
Or, of course,

"when did you choose to be straight? what age? what was the moment?"
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-

http://www.Moloth.com

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2015, 04:48:47 PM »
Its both biological and a choice. Problem solved :)
Thats what differs humans who can spread ideas, and animals who simply cant ask if homosexuality is ok or not. Which is what humans can do due to language and information spread by the form called ideas.

Offline Mermaid

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2015, 04:51:24 PM »
what?
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2015, 04:55:02 PM »
Animal logic: I will fuck this because mating is good.(Instincts)
Human logic: I want to fuck, but hold on... ideas are coming.(Biological and thoughts) Makes it both a choice and biological thing. Thinking why you do it is something animals lack, which is why ideas spread.

Hope that sorta illustrated what i ment.

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2015, 04:57:00 PM »
Animal logic: I will fuck this because mating is good.(Instincts)
Human logic: I want to fuck, but hold on... ideas are coming.(Biological and thoughts) Makes it both a choice and biological thing. Thinking why you do it is something animals lack, which is why ideas spread.

Hope that sorta illustrated what i ment.

Except that you are assuming the existence of free will, and you are assuming that people can override basic natural instincts.
"My only agenda, if one can call it that, is the pursuit of truth" ~AoSS

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2015, 05:09:31 PM »
Except that you are assuming the existence of free will, and you are assuming that people can override basic natural instincts.

That's the point :)
It depends on where you stand yourself. Closeted people exists aswell. Ideas and biological behavior is the same thing that connects humans. Pedophilia and beastiality is also something inhereted on biological behavior. The only difference is that homosexuality is considered ok since its not traumatizing a kid, or having sex with a non consented animal.

Offline Mermaid

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2015, 05:20:07 PM »
Humans are animals.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2015, 05:40:22 PM »
Animal Instinct: I will fuck this because I have a compulsion to do it and the fact that it feels good encourages me to do it more often.
Human Instinct: I want to fuck this because I have a compulsion to do it and the fact that it feels good encourages me to do it more often.

There isn't any difference between human and animal instinct when it comes to sex. Not thought is required.

Human Implementation of Choice: I will not fuck this because society looks down on it, even though I have a strong compulsion to do so. Sexual impulses are part of my nature and the compulsion becomes stronger the more I repress it. I break down and fuck this because the compulsion became overwhelming. Society makes me feel guilty for doing so. I repress my sexual impulses until I finally break down. Each time repeating the cycle, and each time I consider myself weak, immoral, and feel that something is wrong with me. The dissonance between my instinct and my implementation of choice leads to an unpleasant life, and one day in a moment of deep despair, I commit suicide to end the suffering.


Our desire for sex and intimacy is one of our strongest drives. This instinct even has the ability to override hunger and thirst in some situations. You might as well say it's a choice for people to breathe and they can choose to stop and live a healthy life. Do not underestimate the power of instincts. Human beings may have the leg up when it comes to intelligence, but do not doubt for a moment that our instincts are something so easily disregarded.

Homosexuality is not a choice, anymore than heterosexuality. Homosexuals never had a choice in the matter and cannot suppress their sexuality without suffering some sort of mental illness. Cultures, societies, and nearly every aspect of human nature revolves around a person's innate sexuality. We are no more free from our instincts than any other animal.

ETA: Please do not make the assumption that we suppress anger and other negative emotions because we are overriding instincts. Humans have a very strong instinct to be part of a group and to be cooperative. If human beings really had a choice in the matter, most of us would have very little to do with other humans. Instinct drives us to be cooperative and to be around others.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 05:44:24 PM by Aletheia »
Quote from: Jakeness
if you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2015, 05:43:01 PM »
Humans are animals.
Biologically yes. But we are so much more developed on a mental state that choice is natural for us, aswell as the biological nature. If any animal species where as evolved as us. They too would ask if homosexuality is ok or not. Of course religion is mostly to blame for the homo hate. Due to homosexuality being the weak link of evolution... Mostly due too offspring of male and female. Basically seing homosexuality as shameful in terms of their divine solerity.
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There isn't any difference between human and animal instinct when it comes to sex. Not thought is required.
You prove my point. There isn't. In terms of biological nature. But there is something we have that animals simply aren't in yet. They are purely instincts on short life. We are evolved into spreading ideas, what is ok and what is not. There are rules we create. Therefor its both biological and a choice.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 05:46:11 PM by Peter23 »

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2015, 05:54:18 PM »
Biologically yes. But we are so much more developed on a mental state that choice is natural for us, aswell as the biological nature. If any animal species where as evolved as us. They too would ask if homosexuality is ok or not. Of course religion is mostly to blame for the homo hate. Due to homosexuality being the weak link of evolution... Mostly due too offspring of male and female. Basically seing homosexuality as shameful in terms of their divine solerity.

Homosexuality is not a weak link of evolution. If that's the case, then ants are the weak link of evolution because only the queen reproduces while all of her daughters never do. The benefit from homosexuality is derived from the fact that it increased social cohesion when humans were still hunters and gathers, and that a nonbreeding couple could assist breeding couples in rearing their young more successfully. (This isn't a far-fetched idea. Female orcas who are too old to breed are invaluable to their pod because they help increase the mortality of infant and juvenile orcas.) Given that these small human tribes were related to one other, these "gay couples" were helping to increase the success of the offspring who had many of the same genes as them. The fact that homosexuality doesn't follow the watered down version of easy-to-understand evolution doesn't mean that how evolution doesn't have a use for it.

Human beings are not the only creature capable of choice. All mammals, reptiles, birds, amphibians, and fish can make a choice. As research continues, it's becoming apparent that many species of invertebrates are capable of choice. The only thing a more expansive intellect has brought to the table for humans is we are able to understand more in-depth what our choices mean and what effects they can have. Choice does not mean we are able to override our instincts with a degree of high success, if at all. 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 06:02:05 PM by Aletheia »
Quote from: Jakeness
if you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2015, 05:56:56 PM »
You prove my point. There isn't. In terms of biological nature. But there is something we have that animals simply aren't in yet. They are purely instincts on short life. We are evolved into spreading ideas, what is ok and what is not. There are rules we create. Therefor its both biological and a choice.

Sigh... humans are not the only species capable of spreading ideas either. Please, open a biology book or check a scientific website once in a while.

Once again, because we have ideas and can make choices does not mean we will be successful in overriding the most powerful instincts.

Lastly, choice and ideas cannot make a homosexual person heterosexual. All it can do is give the appearance of success while the person suffers internal strife everyday for the rest of their lives.
Quote from: Jakeness
if you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2015, 06:01:58 PM »
Animals uses body language or sounds to communicate in that case. But its not the same as having a coherent language to spread actual ideas to people. Animals chooses what to do with their own life, but they dont bother with nonsensical stuff like "oh who are you having sex with". 'cause ideas as a whole doesn't exist. They just don't care about it. Just as it was with us when we were primates. I mean maybe we were a tiny bit more smarter. But in general. Its sorta mostly the closest thing i can compare us to the animals on a mental state. But then homo sapiens came. Boom.

And thats why we use a computer now.

As for saying homosexuals are a weak link in evolution. In a way they sorta are. I mean sure it was ok at sometime. But... in the case of homo sapiens. The thinking humans, there has to be a period where they thought to themself. Wow how unnatural of them. Having sex for fun, instead of bringing forth a generation.

Thats how the weak link is spotted. They saw that as a nuisance and as a result. Convinced people that it was nothing to collect on. And so the homo hate was borned.

Offline Mermaid

Re: "I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2015, 06:21:24 PM »
Biologically yes. But we are so much more developed on a mental state that choice is natural for us, aswell as the biological nature.
How do you know that? Are you sure?

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As for saying homosexuals are a weak link in evolution. In a way they sorta are.
No they aren't.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 06:23:14 PM by Mermaid »
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy