Author Topic: "Burden of Proof" is evil.  (Read 3160 times)

"Burden of Proof" is evil.
« on: April 13, 2014, 12:14:31 PM »
One of my cousins finally found the words to convey why she was angry with me. "You go on about 'burden of proof', saying if I believe something and want you to believe it I have to prove that there's a reason for you to believe. Well, I don't like thinking about my religion, I just want to believe it. And you should believe it too, because it's TRUE!"  (Verbiage converted from backwoods Missourian to US-English.)

I quite like this. She has admitted that she has no evidence for her beliefs, and furthermore she doesn't want to even think about whether they're true or not, yet she is demanding that I fall into the same trap she can't find her way out of. (I call it the gossamer prison, because it would be so easy to bust out.)

Anybody else have this problem with "burden of proof" and believers?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Hydra009

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2014, 12:43:34 PM »
But did you prove to her that materialism is true?  :P

Offline Solitary

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2014, 01:03:14 PM »
My Catholic wife will not talk about her religion, but I would say it is the same with her. It's like she doesn't want to learn anything because she was taught God is everything period, and still lives in a world as a child in denial of reality. She has a terrific ability to lie to herself and functions better than I do with normal reality. She says she is a nervous wreck all the time, but always seems just the opposite. I never realized it until I traveled the world without her that she made me nervous during stressful times. I never got nervous when alone. Somehow it works, and we get along with each other very well, because she is very easy going all the time. Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline leo

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2014, 01:16:26 PM »
My Catholic wife will not talk about her religion, but I would say it is the same with her. It's like she doesn't want to learn anything because she was taught God is everything period, and still lives in a world as a child in denial of reality. She has a terrific ability to lie to herself and functions better than I do with normal reality. She says she is a nervous wreck all the time, but always seems just the opposite. I never realized it until I traveled the world without her that she made me nervous during stressful times. I never got nervous when alone. Somehow it works, and we get along with each other very well, because she is very easy going all the time. Solitary
                                                                                                                                           My catholic sister is the same. She is in denial of the real world. She prefered to live in her fantasies. Frustrating to say the least.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 01:18:44 PM by leo »
Religion is Bullshit  . The winner of the last person to post wins thread .

Offline stromboli

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2014, 01:19:55 PM »
Burden of proof= bludgeon of reality?

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2014, 01:33:17 PM »
Burden of proof= bludgeon of reality?
=death of delusion.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Solitary

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2014, 01:37:37 PM »
                                                                                                                                           My catholic sister is the same. She is in denial of the real world. She prefered to live in her fantasies. Frustrating to say the least.


It depends on the fantasy! It was a riot when I was younger. Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Offline SGOS

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2014, 01:42:27 PM »
One of my cousins finally found the words to convey why she was angry with me. "You go on about 'burden of proof', saying if I believe something and want you to believe it I have to prove that there's a reason for you to believe. Well, I don't like thinking about my religion, I just want to believe it. And you should believe it too, because it's TRUE!"

There you have it.  Resistance is futile.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2014, 04:04:50 PM »
Have you proven yet, beyond a shadow of the doubt that your cousin isn't in fact a messenger sent directly from God himself?  :think:
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2014, 04:14:46 PM »
Have you proven yet, beyond a shadow of the doubt that your cousin isn't in fact a messenger sent directly from God himself?  :think:
That would only be the case if the god was Cthulhu.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline the_antithesis

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 01:18:50 PM »
One of my cousins finally found the words to convey why she was angry with me. "You go on about 'burden of proof', saying if I believe something and want you to believe it I have to prove that there's a reason for you to believe. Well, I don't like thinking about my religion, I just want to believe it. And you should believe it too, because it's TRUE!"  (Verbiage converted from backwoods Missourian to US-English.)
 

This shows the arrogance inherent in faith. She expects you to believe it too for no other reason that she believes it. You should accept it's true, not because she has evidence to back it up or has done any work to test it, but because she accepts it. If she believes it, it must be true. She cannot possibly be wrong.

Point this out to her and remind her that pride is a sin and that god opposes the proud.

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2014, 01:27:31 PM »
Yes!  This happened with my mom.  Being Italian, of course she is Jesusy.  I was breaking down some inconsistencies regarding the Bible, and her reaction was "we overanalyze everything in life so much, I think the Bible is one thing were not supposed to rip apart."  I was taken aback, but it's typical of people who basically just accepted the stories as a kid and never questioned them as they got older.
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Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2014, 01:52:28 PM »
This shows the arrogance inherent in faith. She expects you to believe it too for no other reason that she believes it. You should accept it's true, not because she has evidence to back it up or has done any work to test it, but because she accepts it. If she believes it, it must be true. She cannot possibly be wrong.

Point this out to her and remind her that pride is a sin and that god opposes the proud.

We've had that conversation.

"But testifying for Jesus is not a sin!"
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline the_antithesis

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2014, 02:06:44 PM »
We've had that conversation.

"But testifying for Jesus is not a sin!"

*sigh*

This is why I hate talking to christians. Especially about religion. Nevermind that sin is a stupid concept and all god's fault in the first place, (depending on your definition of sin, basically is sin is just disobeying god, then the only moral thing god could do is never issue any commandments since it knows we aren't perfect and would fuck up)

The delusion is layers deep like a retarded onion.

But she isn't testifying for jesus. Jesus isn't here. if she want's jesus involved, she needs to bring some evidence. There's only her and her word that what she says is true. And these people have the cheek to call us arrogant.

Re: "Burden of Proof" is evil.
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2014, 02:09:22 PM »
You should come to one of my family reunions. You can have my ticket.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers