I Believe God Exists

[aitm]

Luke......use the force...

[stromboli]

Luke......use the force...

Are we talking Yoda or Darth Vader? I sense a movement in The Force.....

[aitm]

Are we talking Yoda or Darth Vader? I sense a movement in The Force.....

I had a movement earlier and it required some force...

[stromboli]

Awaiting proof to back up belief of god's existence. Awaiting. With bated breath. Or something.

[Contemporary Protestant]

I'm disappointed in casaprov

[Mr.Obvious]

I believe in Harvey Dent!

... Casparov's ability to back up his claims... not so much.

[Casparov]

Just out of curiosity: what is not convincing about the "alternative"? That we exist in a universe, that this universe is material or that it is objective?

It still seems to me like you're just calling what everyone else calls the universe, "god".   If this isn't what you're doing, please explain yourself.

I am not convinced that we live in a material objective universe. For starters, I challenge any of you to prove that we do. What empirical evidence do you have that can prove for instance, that Nick Bostrom's Simulation Argument is conclusively false and we do in fact live in a material objective reality?

There is no proof. There is no empirical evidence that supports your belief in objective materialism if you are a Materialist, and if you are an Atheist because of your Materialism, that is a problem.

The bottom line is thus: That we live in a Material Objective Universe is an unsupported assumption, no more supported than any other unsupported assumption. (such as a belief in the Christian creation myth)

I admit that if Materialism is true, then Atheism is a quite valid conclusion to come to, for if Materialism is true there is no need for any kind of "God" to exist. But the fact is, Materialism is a baseless assumption. It works, don't get me wrong, just as the Flat Earth Theory still works to this day when building a house or running on a soccer field, just as Newtonian Physics works when playing billiards or dropping fruit from buildings, but in the end, just like Newtonian Physics and Flat Earth Theory, Materialism is not ultimately true.

To disbelieve in all "Gods" based on "no proof", but at the same time believe that we live in a Material Objective Universe with "no proof", is a special kind of cognitive dissonance I cannot personal stomach when constructing my own world view. Maybe it is different for you all.

If you are a Materialist, then you are making a Positive Claim about reality, and it is up to you to provide evidence for your claim. The Burden of Proof applies to all positive claims, not just one's that you don't agree with.

[josephpalazzo]

I am not convinced that we live in a material objective universe. For starters, I challenge any of you to prove that we do. What empirical evidence do you have that can prove for instance, that Nick Bostrom's Simulation Argument is conclusively false and we do in fact live in a material objective reality?

There is no proof. There is no empirical evidence that supports your belief in objective materialism if you are a Materialist, and if you are an Atheist because of your Materialism, that is a problem.

The bottom line is thus: That we live in a Material Objective Universe is an unsupported assumption, no more supported than any other unsupported assumption. (such as a belief in the Christian creation myth)

I admit that if Materialism is true, then Atheism is a quite valid conclusion to come to, for if Materialism is true there is no need for any kind of "God" to exist. But the fact is, Materialism is a baseless assumption. It works, don't get me wrong, just as the Flat Earth Theory still works to this day when building a house or running on a soccer field, just as Newtonian Physics works when playing billiards or dropping fruit from buildings, but in the end, just like Newtonian Physics and Flat Earth Theory, Materialism is not ultimately true.

To disbelieve in all "Gods" based on "no proof", but at the same time believe that we live in a Material Objective Universe with "no proof", is a special kind of cognitive dissonance I cannot personal stomach when constructing my own world view. Maybe it is different for you all.

If you are a Materialist, then you are making a Positive Claim about reality, and it is up to you to provide evidence for your claim. The Burden of Proof applies to all positive claims, not just one's that you don't agree with.

There is no proof of Material Objective Universe just like there is no proof that Santa Claus doesn't exist. That reality is made up of matter is not a presupposition as you are inclined to believe but it is a conclusion from 500 years of scientific investigation that there is no spiritual/immaterial world. Every claim of a spiritual/immaterial case has been debunked through those 5 centuries. If you have proof of a spiritual/immaterial case, then bring it out. Otherwise, you are wasting your time.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Aren't you all forgetting something. The OP included the emoticon with FLOWERS, PROOF of gods love!

Sooo....

I believe God exists. And I'm willing to debate with people who don't agree with me. And so here I am. Hi.

[stromboli]

Concrete made from a recipe is hard. Made each time from that same recipe is equally hard and hardens in the same way. Atoms exist, molecules exist, and have the same properties now they had when first identified. That which can be tested and identified can be assumed as "real" because there is no evidence to indicate otherwise.

By the way, proof itself is a material thing, and you have not offered that.

I am disappoint. 

(edit) Get your head out of the philosophy books and go kick a boulder. Tell me if its real or not.

[leo]

I believe in Harvey Dent!

... Casparov's ability to back up his claims... not so much.

But the joker corrupted this harvey dude. Proving his point that most "good" people  can be turn evil. Shit I'm crazy arguing about a movie! Like people arguing about their religious dogmas.

[Hydra009]

The bottom line is thus: That we live in a Material Objective Universe is an unsupported assumption, no more supported than any other unsupported assumption. (such as a belief in the Christian creation myth)

Burden of proof shifting combined with Betcha Can't Prove A Negative.

And this sort of shoddy logic from the guy who's supposed to lead us heathens to God.  So disappointing.

I admit that if Materialism is true, then Atheism is a quite valid conclusion to come to, for if Materialism is true there is no need for any kind of "God" to exist.

Hardly.  That's the sort of argument we can make now.  In your scenario, we could dispense with that argument entirely and falsify the god hypothesis.  If materialism (the idea that all things are composed of matter - that there is nothing that exists besides physical things) were true, then supernatural entities do not exist by definition.   The frustratingly vague term, "God", is nonetheless defined as a supernatural being.  Ergo, God does not exist.

To disbelieve in all "Gods" based on "no proof", but at the same time believe that we live in a Material Objective Universe with "no proof", is a special kind of cognitive dissonance I cannot personal stomach when constructing my own world view. Maybe it is different for you all.

And here's Atheists Have Faith, Too! (C).  Yikes.

Yanno, I think there was a theist who recently put up a thread saying how they'd like to understand atheism.  I suggest you'd try that out first.

[stromboli]

That was it? 7 pages and that was it? Boy, you got to do better than that.

And I meant that. Kick a boulder in your street shoes. You will experience pain. You will do physical damage to your foot. The pain will be very real to you. If you take painkillers the pain will lessen but will return after a time. You will experience the physical sensation and also the mental anguish of pain. the damage done to your foot will be there every time you look, but over time will heal and diminish. there will be a mark on the boulder that will be there until it is weathered or rubbed away.

the healing and loss of the mark both demonstrate the passage of time, an aspect of the material universe.

This is not A Priori, this is objectively real. Every time you kick the boulder it will be just as hard and the damage to your foot and the pain will be the same. This is reproducibility, another aspect of the material universe.

the density of the boulder will not change. Your foot will still be hurt every time you kick the boulder. this is consistency, another aspect of the material universe.

Go kick a boulder. You lose.

[Solitary]

Jesus H. Christ! Atheism is not based on faith with no evidence, It is based on sound reasoning with no evidence. Give me a break! This is not a personal attack, but just common sense, the idea of a God without evidence is about as stupid and childish as one can get. Solitary

[stromboli]

Jesus H. Christ! Atheism is not based on faith with no evidence, It is based on sound reasoning with no evidence. Give me a break! This is not a personal attack, but just common sense, the idea of a God without evidence is about as stupid and childish as one can get. Solitary

Oh, go on, you silly materialist you!