Air strike kills 15 Civilians

[Smartmarzipan]

Air strike kills 15 civilians in Yemen by mistake: officials
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/ ... 2?irpc=932

Fifteen people on their way to a wedding in Yemen were killed in an air strike after their party was mistaken for an al Qaeda convoy, local security officials said on Thursday.

The officials did not identify the plane in the strike in central al-Bayda province, but tribal and local media sources said that it was a drone.

Human Rights Watch said in a detailed report in August that U.S. missile strikes, including armed drone attacks, have killed dozens of civilians in Yemen.

Stabilizing the country, which is also struggling with southern separatists and northern rebels, is an international priority due to fears of disorder in a state that flanks top oil producer Saudi Arabia and major shipping lanes.

On Monday, missiles fired from a U.S. drone killed at least three people travelling in a car in eastern Yemen.

Oil must flow. Damn the [s:wwq5wfmh]people[/s:wwq5wfmh]collateral damage.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

The spice must flow.

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...]but tribal and local media sources said that it was a drone.

How do they know?  Drones fly  pretty high, often beyond visual ID range. While what we do regarding drone strikes sucks, this article provides no evidence to support its points.

[mykcob4]

The spice must flow.

Are you saying those people were DUNED?

[Shiranu]

[...]but tribal and local media sources said that it was a drone.

How do they know?  Drones fly  pretty high, often beyond visual ID range. While what we do regarding drone strikes sucks, this article provides no evidence to support its points.

It's in Yemen, where we have murdered hundred of civilians with drones. Since we are not at war with Yemen and running air raids (afaik) it is safe to assume it was a drone.

But the U.S. either way will say they were possible enemy combatants and not necessarily civilians. Looks better that way.

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...]but tribal and local media sources said that it was a drone.

How do they know?  Drones fly  pretty high, often beyond visual ID range. While what we do regarding drone strikes sucks, this article provides no evidence to support its points.

It's in Yemen, where we have murdered hundred of civilians with drones. Since we are not at war with Yemen and running air raids (afaik) it is safe to assume it was a drone.

But the U.S. either way will say they were possible enemy combatants and not necessarily civilians. Looks better that way.

No, it's not "safe to assume" anything.  Evidence, please.

You realize that Yemen has its own air force, right?  You realize that the Yemeni government has been fighting AQAP itself, right?

Also, according to http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/ca ... nes-yemen/, the number of civilian deaths definitely caused by drones is between 21 and 56, not "hundreds."  

As far as the rest of your post, I've seen the US admit to having killed civilians plenty of times.

[Smartmarzipan]

It was an "apparent drone strike".

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... killing-15

I think it would be far-fetched to assume it was anything other than a US military drone strike, though.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I'm wondering why on this site many here would just as soon see most of the muslim world eradicated should in any way be shocked at 15 being killed.
While I don't really share that view I've seen it expressed here many times so it's ok to eradicate all muslims and all religion for that matter, let's do it the old fashioned way? Let's bomb them with old style aircraft? This site makes me wonder sometimes. :-k

[frosty]

The Yemen government uses helicopter gunships and fixed wing aircraft to bomb AQ positions during operations. The thing is, is that even to the naked eye, sometimes those themselves are hard to spot - let alone a drone, which could be operating in maximized levels to avoid being shot down, possibly even in stealth mode. The catch here being that possibly maybe someone thought it was a drone because it made a buzzing noise, as certain models have been known to do that when flying low.

And AllPurposeAtheist, I don't support these strikes (not that it matters what I think), but I've always thought that if the western world truly was on a "crusade" to kill Muslims then they are doing a fucking shitty job. Let's be honest here, there are 1.2 - 1.5 billion Muslims and the west kills a couple dozen on average every month, through these specific strikes, maybe, to "destroy Islam"? If the west truly has that goal of doing so it's time for them to rethink their strategy!

[Smartmarzipan]

The Yemen government uses helicopter gunships and fixed wing aircraft to bomb AQ positions during operations. The thing is, is that even to the naked eye, sometimes those themselves are hard to spot - let alone a drone, which could be operating in maximized levels to avoid being shot down, possibly even in stealth mode. The catch here being that possibly maybe someone thought it was a drone because it made a buzzing noise, as certain models have been known to do that when flying low.

Source?

[Minimalist]

Oops.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Frosty, I'm not suggesting the west is out to do anything to the muslim world. I was thinking of views I've seen written on AF from time to time espousing that the muslim world, Islam is utterly evil, etc., yet when a handful of civilians are knocked off by 'a drone' there is suddenly some sort of nefarious conspiracy..  Just seems odd if not at times hypocritical and no Smartzy, I'm not saying you have ever indicated anything of the sort. I've seen anti-muslim sentiment on AF though on numerous occasions.

[mykcob4]

This story really bothers me. As a combat Vet, I have seen and felt what collateral damage really is. The first thing wrong with it is that it turns the locals against you. Secondly but just as important it is flat out murder. Maybe accidental murder but murder just the same.
I don't have a problem with drones. They are just tools.
I don't have a problem with fighting in Yemen either. It is just one of well over 100 places that the USA is conducting ongoing firefights without a declaration of war. BTW a war declaration is dependent on the scale and nature of the fight. Yes that is political spin in many cases, but you wouldn't call the CIA paying a foriegn field operative to eliminate a drug/warlord a "war."

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Hmm..drone kills 15 vs B-52's carpet bombing 100's if not 1000's, both from high altitude.. Both seem nefarious, but 15 vs 1000's.. Tough to argue against drones in that context.

[frosty]

The Yemen government uses helicopter gunships and fixed wing aircraft to bomb AQ positions during operations. The thing is, is that even to the naked eye, sometimes those themselves are hard to spot - let alone a drone, which could be operating in maximized levels to avoid being shot down, possibly even in stealth mode. The catch here being that possibly maybe someone thought it was a drone because it made a buzzing noise, as certain models have been known to do that when flying low.

Source?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8349984.stm - In this one, they are bombing other rebel positions not affiliated with AQ but they are still armed militants nonetheless.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8469959.stm - Taking out a commander.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20110928/167215842.html - Here, they seemed to have downed an aircraft that was on a possible recon mission. I'm not sure who gave the 'rebels' anti-aircraft weapons, but there has always been suspicions that the mainstream rebels that came around from the 2011 uprising were always affiliated with AQ.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world ... 736359.htm - Striking bases of AQ.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world ... 041888.htm - Once again, bombing AQ bases.

http://yemenpost.net/Detail123456789.as ... SubID=5542 - The casualties seem high in this one but the same as above.

There was actually a lot more sources I could use but I don't want to post too many for the sake of redundancy.