Author Topic: Racism false positives  (Read 714 times)

Offline aitm

Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2021, 04:01:09 PM »
Unfortunately we're way past the point where "colorblind" is a viable option.


Maybe, I think we simply haven’t gotten to that point. Eventually humanity will, perhaps. Either we will end up in the real “melting pot” or we will die off in some incredibly stupid way.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2021, 06:11:27 PM »
As a person who tries to be a good person and believe all individuals are equal while also understanding systematic racism is a problem. This whole "woke" thing is also full of hate and is depressing. To want to strip yourself of a thing you like because it's white is wrong on so many levels because it not only strips you of your identity, it also strips you of your individual independence. I am white, and I am emotionally concerned with all the hate against me when I think I'm on the same consensus as those who want equality and free from oppression. Yet I'm also on the side that seems to hate my ethnical background because of people of the past and present who are deemed "racist" and while I try not to be "racist" it seems as though that same party will dub me racist no matter what, and I feel hated and I feel scared  because the war cries are as loud and are deemed "justifiable". While I also see the nightmare tragedies of the past, does that justify hating the future white children because of it? When I was a kid I saw that hate directed at me and I felt ashamed despite never having done anything "racist"  because my parents are hippies and taught me better. At the same time I feel angered by all the hate directed at me still and that is a problem we need to face in the near future.

Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2021, 07:29:28 PM »
As a person who tries to be a good person and believe all individuals are equal while also understanding systematic racism is a problem. This whole "woke" thing is also full of hate and is depressing. To want to strip yourself of a thing you like because it's white is wrong on so many levels because it not only strips you of your identity, it also strips you of your individual independence. I am white, and I am emotionally concerned with all the hate against me when I think I'm on the same consensus as those who want equality and free from oppression. Yet I'm also on the side that seems to hate my ethnical background because of people of the past and present who are deemed "racist" and while I try not to be "racist" it seems as though that same party will dub me racist no matter what, and I feel hated and I feel scared  because the war cries are as loud and are deemed "justifiable". While I also see the nightmare tragedies of the past, does that justify hating the future white children because of it? When I was a kid I saw that hate directed at me and I felt ashamed despite never having done anything "racist"  because my parents are hippies and taught me better. At the same time I feel angered by all the hate directed at me still and that is a problem we need to face in the near future.
Kind of along these same lines Draconic.  I grew up white and in a white society; I was not aware of 'races' per se (at least, not much).  That was not my 'fault' in that I was born into it.  I lived in Eastern Oregon in the small town of Hermiston (famous for it's melons) and there was not a 'colored' (meaning no Latins, blacks (Negro then), Asians or anything other than white in town.  Same for the school, of course.  I went into the 5th grade; my dad was then sent to Alabama (dept. of the Army civ).  My world changed.  I became aware of prejudice for the first time, directed toward me.  As it turned out I was a Yankee in the Heart of Dixie--which was all new to me.  I also became aware of the separate world of the 'colored's'.  Blacks (as I said Negro then) had their own schools, stores, churches and sections of towns--and more.  As the Supreme Court specified, separate but equal taken to the extreme illogical conclusion that is the hallmark of the South.  I saw my first 'colored' signs over bathrooms and drinking fountains and other places.  I lived in a military housing project next to the Supply Depot Army Fort; it was federal, so all races were working there and the blacks were allowed to live in the same housing project everybody else was.  So, I could play with them, but not go to school with them.  This young white boy was seeing another side to our society; I was pretty dumbfounded.  At least my parents never used the 'n' word nor spoke about any person of color because of that color.  So, I was 10/11 when I began learning about what our society was actually about. 

I have been in situations in my life where I was subjected to prejudice because of my color; that did not make me feel all that good, and I was angered at times.  Yet, I realized from my life experiences that what I had suffered was a 'walk in the park' compared to what non-whites had to endure on a daily basis.  There are those who are not white who want me to feel bad about my ethnic background (mostly Swedish and Irish) but I had no control over that.  I was simply born as I was born.  Yet I do understand why non-whites feel hatred and fear.  But hating me for being white or anybody else for being white is just as wrong as hating for the opposite reason.  Hate begets hate.  I should be judged by what I have done and am doing now; not for what I was born into. 

But our (the USA) society is clearly centered around and caters to, white society; especially centered around old white men.  That has to change.  Hate won't change it for the good.  But respect for a person as a person will.  As a white centered society, we need to have the blindfold ripped off so that we can see things as they really are, and not what we hope them to be.  This is what the orange monster did for me.  I was sure our society was on the way to becoming equal for all.  What a fucking fool I was!!

So, Draconic, I understand how you feel.  But I also can understand why blacks (or Asian or Latin) would look at our society in general, and even me, without knowing me, with hate and fear.  There are good people in all sections of our society and conversely, bad people, too.  I hope the good in all of us prevails; but I really am in fear for the future of this country.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2021, 08:12:15 AM »
I was raised to be covertly racist via certain family, teachers, coworkers and friends.  For example my impulse reaction to encountering a black male depends on context and could still be significantly different than my reaction to a white person.

I don't think these impulses originate at a readily cognitive area (for any race.) Many of us will have to work hard to fix this, no matter our race.

Offline Mermaid

Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2021, 12:02:52 PM »
As a person who tries to be a good person and believe all individuals are equal while also understanding systematic racism is a problem. This whole "woke" thing is also full of hate and is depressing. To want to strip yourself of a thing you like because it's white is wrong on so many levels because it not only strips you of your identity, it also strips you of your individual independence. I am white, and I am emotionally concerned with all the hate against me when I think I'm on the same consensus as those who want equality and free from oppression. Yet I'm also on the side that seems to hate my ethnical background because of people of the past and present who are deemed "racist" and while I try not to be "racist" it seems as though that same party will dub me racist no matter what, and I feel hated and I feel scared  because the war cries are as loud and are deemed "justifiable". While I also see the nightmare tragedies of the past, does that justify hating the future white children because of it? When I was a kid I saw that hate directed at me and I felt ashamed despite never having done anything "racist"  because my parents are hippies and taught me better. At the same time I feel angered by all the hate directed at me still and that is a problem we need to face in the near future.
You must fight the urge to make it about you, because it's not about you at all. It's about others, and really making an effort to understand where they're coming from. That doesn't mean you will be persecuted for being who you are.
Mike, if a person grows up "unaware" of race, that means you lived in a world of privilege. You didn't HAVE to see it.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2021, 12:28:27 PM »
Mike, if a person grows up "unaware" of race, that means you lived in a world of privilege. You didn't HAVE to see it.
Yes, in a very real sense, I was privileged.  Not in a monetary sense, for we were barely middle class.  But I was raised in an area until the middle of the 5th grade where race was not an issue for the simple reason there were almost all whites.  I knew of some of the 'colored' peoples (American Indians because of the Pendleton Roundup) but had zero contact with any.  Plus it was in Eastern Oregon, and in those days (50's) there was not the media blitz there is now.  All we had were newspapers and radio.  No TV, and no cable news or anything like it.  So, it was easy to be isolated and to stay that way.  My mid-5th grade move changed all that.  Alabama had obvious racial problems at that time, what with clear divides between whites and non-whites.  The 'colored' and 'white' signs over bathrooms and water fountains and certain stores and understood divides for churches, areas of towns and other meeting and public places.  My social awareness grew from that time forward.

One of the biggest exposures of prejudice (of a racial nature) toward me was while I was a student at Chico St. College (CA).  I dated a Japanese girl for a few weeks; during a holiday break, she went home; when break ended, I had a hard time finding her again.  When I finally did, I was informed that her parents told her not to see me anymore.  They had been in the Internment Camps during WWII and did not want her to date any white guys.  Looking back, I can understand her parent's attitude; but it did hurt a bit at the time.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2021, 01:17:26 PM »
We could make a distinction between racism and prejudice. "Isms" are generally 'systems' put into place that are based on ideas. Prejudices are personal beliefs. Racism is practically impossible for a white American to experience. Prejudice against whites could be common however.

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2021, 06:46:46 PM »
We could make a distinction between racism and prejudice. "Isms" are generally 'systems' put into place that are based on ideas. Prejudices are personal beliefs. Racism is practically impossible for a white American to experience. Prejudice against whites could be common however.

I disagree. Racism can be felt by everyone. I will defend that to the nail because to simply say "prejudice" pisses me off. I have experienced it first hand as a minority in the Rio Grande Valley where the population is mostly Latino.


Re: Racism false positives
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2021, 07:03:47 PM »
I disagree. Racism can be felt by everyone. I will defend that to the nail because to simply say "prejudice" pisses me off. I have experienced it first hand as a minority in the Rio Grande Valley where the population is mostly Latino.
If there systemic history of oppression of the white race in that area then I would agree. I lived in Miami as a white minority and I did not feel oppressed by society there. In fact, most whites were doing very well.