Author Topic: The growing DNC civil war  (Read 941 times)

Offline Hydra009

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2021, 06:22:03 PM »
As Trump learned, presidents are not kings and, as we learned from Trump, we don't want them to be.
I wish that were the case.

Plenty of people cast their vote for a king (some twice) and that option lost by very narrow margins in some key states, Trump was allowed to do virtually whatever he wanted when in office - even pardoning his cronies and deliberately crippling the vote-carrying post office - and was shielded from prosecution under the bizarre logic that "you can't prosecute a sitting president" (which quickly morphed into "there's no need to prosecute an ex-president").

It was only the Beer Hall Putsch on Jan 6th that was a bit too far - and even then, there was an oddly mute reaction from our allegedly most patriotic, criticizing it only long after it was clear that the power grab had failed.

Americans are far more pro-king than I am comfortable with and there is precious little keeping us from a repeat with a different outcome.

Imho, we've had our Sulla but not yet our Caesar.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 06:56:53 PM by Hydra009 »

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2021, 07:57:42 PM »
I can relate to the top 4 categories, but little in the bottom 2.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2021, 12:44:00 AM »
After a Year of Riots, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler Vows to 'Take Our City Back from Antifa.' Color Us Skeptical.

Quote
Last summer, as antifa and BLM rioters attacked the downtown Portland federal courthouse, set fire to the police union hall, hurled IEDs, blinded cops with lasers, and destroyed the Apple store, Mayor Ted Wheeler joined them. But that’s when President Donald Trump was in office and demanded Wheeler do something about the destruction. Wheeler tried to be the Jacob Frey-like cool mayor. Trump was the problem, not the misunderstood rioters, naturally.

But this time after the refurbished Apple store was again set on fire by rioters, and hours before the Derek Chauvin verdict was read, Wheeler put the city under a state of emergency and announced that, with the help of the public, he would “take back our city from antifa.”

Recommended: Seattle Antifa Hate Group Threatens to Burn Down Church Over Event With Charlie Kirk
In a video Wheeler released, but did not put on his Twitter account, the mayor struck a new tone.

Our job is to unmask them, arrest them, and prosecute them.

Forgive us if we’re just a little bit skeptical.

Blinded to the truthful axiom of “that which gets rewarded gets repeated,” the trustafarian mayor, whose office windows literally look down on antifa destruction, has allowed the violent mob to ply their trade with impunity for the past year. He’s previously denounced the violence, but his flaccid words and weak denunciations have never been followed up with serious action. They were understood in the same manner they were delivered – “Come on you guys, I really mean it this time! If you don’t do what I say, I’ll tell mom!”

But now that police officers have retired in record numbers or left in droves for worse pay but better mayors; now that he’s personally been attacked; now that business owners are screaming at him – again; and now that the district attorney’s office has become a revolving door for the violent mob, Wheeler has taken an unusual step and asked Portlanders to turn in antifa.

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2021, 12:58:26 AM »
I just masturbated.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2021, 01:07:09 AM »
I just masturbated.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

Is this the new leftist tactic? Trying to make people too disgusted with them to hang around?

Offline Shiranu

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2021, 02:00:43 AM »
Is this the new leftist tactic? Trying to make people too disgusted with them to hang around?

Would it work?

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2021, 02:36:26 AM »
I dunno, maybe.



Or maybe not.


Offline SGOS

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2021, 04:08:38 AM »
After a Year of Riots, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler Vows to 'Take Our City Back from Antifa.' Color Us Skeptical.

Thanks for the article, which also links to useful others such as "Dirty Tricks One Can Use in Street Fights," and ads for Tshirts advocating rebellion.  The only thing that it didn't mention was that in Portland, "there were good people on both sides."  I'm not sure why they left that out.  Mayor Wheeler vowed to take back the city from the mob, but as the article points out, he didn't really mean it.  He's a tricky one that Wheeler.



Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2021, 05:11:34 PM »
DNC chair agrees with James Carville on 'wokeness' problem, implores Democrats to ‘speak plain English’

This article is along the same vein of persuasive discourse and the importance of meeting people where they are. I agree with the author that some progressives, for whatever reason, are reluctant to reframe their arguments in a way that appeals to conservatives.

The Language of Liberals

KEY POINTS:
- Reframing messages can make them more broadly appealing.
- Many liberals can't (or don't want to) reframe their messages.
- This dynamic must change if we're going to advance progressive goals.

A large body of research has shown that “meeting people where they are” is an effective political strategy. We can be more persuasive, and thus more successful, in creating positive change across society by understanding individuals’ motivations and appealing to them directly. Moral reframing is one way to accomplish this. When liberals and conservatives craft statements that appeal to each other’s moral foundations, they can garner more support for issues ranging from health care to military funding to environmental policies.

Say you support antidiscrimination protections for LGBTQ+ folks. How would you rally other people to this cause? You might suggest that expanding antidiscrimination protections is the morally right thing to do because it’s ethical to treat everyone equally, or because it’s important to defend marginalized groups. These arguments would probably resonate with many liberals, who share strong concerns about fairness and compassion. But it would be less appealing to conservatives, who may have differing ideas about what is “fair,” may prioritize other moral concerns (such as respect for traditions and institutions), and may be apprehensive about how other groups’ rights clash with their own.

A reframed argument would instead focus on how LGBTQ+ individuals are proud and patriotic American citizens, because conservatives generally prioritize national loyalty as a core value. Researchers Matt Feinberg and Rob Willer found that by framing the argument in terms of group loyalty (compared to stereotypical social justice values), conservatives' support for LGBTQ+ legal rights significantly increases and is statistically about as high as liberals’ support. At a time when transgender folks’ rights are being taken away by GOP legislatures, we desperately need more support from conservatives. I suggest deploying more reframing techniques. ...
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2021, 05:25:09 PM »
I don't know if that's going to happen. A lot of people are attracted to the left because of a personal sense of inferiority or at least marginality, which is compensated for by "intellectualism", or really, an ongoing effort to conspire against a society that rejects them, oftentimes for good reason. Here's a great article about liberalism being held back by elitism. They're not going to meet people where they are because they view them as dirt, and liberals convince themselves that conservatives are dirt people because they live in fear of them.



tl;dw Bernie says that Qanon and similar conspiracy theories arise out of a growing sense of economic insecurity, and is criticized by the DNC establishment for it. The fact that they are criticizing Sanders for this is interpreted (in my mind correctly) as a sign that the establishment is horribly out of touch with the economic realities of everyday Americans.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 06:39:31 PM by arch warmonger »

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2021, 08:23:01 PM »
I don't know if that's going to happen. A lot of people are attracted to the left because of a personal sense of inferiority or at least marginality, which is compensated for by "intellectualism", or really, an ongoing effort to conspire against a society that rejects them, oftentimes for good reason. Here's a great article about liberalism being held back by elitism. They're not going to meet people where they are because they view them as dirt, and liberals convince themselves that conservatives are dirt people because they live in fear of them.

Good article. I agree with the author that the priorities of liberals who live on the coasts are not always the same as liberals who live in middle America, however, they need not be antagonist groups because on most issues they agree. Both want affordable, universal healthcare. Both want gun control measures that will maximize freedom while reducing firearm-related deaths and injuries. Both want a society where racial disparities are reduced or eliminated.

This glass-half-empty mindset must change, and it must change most dramatically with respect to how elite liberals view the rest of the country. There are plenty of liberals out there in middle America, and plenty of liberalish moderates, and plenty of people who lean conservative but who aren’t consumed by rage and who think Barack Obama is a pretty cool guy and who might even have voted for him. These people are potential allies. But before the alliance can be struck, elite liberals need to recognize a fundamental truth: All of these people in middle America, even the actual liberals, have very different sensibilities than elite liberals who live on the coasts.

We live in a democracy and a majority is necessary to create positive changes. Democrats can be an open, welcoming party where a diversity of opinions and philosophies can be an asset rather than a liability if they focus on common goals. Democrats need the voters AOC attracts and the voters Joe Biden attracts.
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2021, 11:46:14 AM »
After a year of protests, Portland residents have waning patience for antifa


Quote
Rose City Antifa is one of the nation's oldest active antifa groups. Members rarely give interviews, but two who say they are part of antifa agreed to speak to "Nightline" as the situation in their city of Portland, Oregon, has become a prolonged and destructive stalemate.

Rose City Antifa members "Milo" and "Ace" use pseudonyms and they asked that their faces and voices be obscured for this report.

"The use of violence is a tactic of how we keep our communities safe," Milo said.

Much of the blame for the chaos, property damage and violence over the last year have landed on the self-described anti-racist, anti-facist far left organizers. The black-clad coterie entrenched in the city's protest movement now find themselves in a tense showdown with city officials.

Watch "Nightline" weeknights at 12:35 a.m. ET on ABC

"We've always had protests here. But to see some of the violent acts like the Molotov cocktails and some of the things thrown at officers has been really new to us," Portland's Police Chief Chuck Lovell told "Nightline."

Mayor Ted Wheeler has been outspoken against the group in recent months.

"The self-described anarchists who engage in regular criminal destruction don't want things to open up to recover," he said in a live video conference in April. "The city of Portland will not tolerate criminal destruction for violence ... for those who are involved in it let's make them hurt them a little bit."

"When the mayor says that he wants citizens and his law enforcement officers [to] make protesters 'hurt a little,' that is a pretty explicit threat," Milo said.

Amid the back and forth, Portland residents are left drained from the conflict and are increasingly decrying the property destruction thought to be perpetuated by antifa.

"I feel frustrated that this is all still going on," said Ian Williiams, owner of Deadstock Coffee, a sneaker-themed cafe downtown. "But I also feel frustrated that Black people keep getting killed. I feel frustrated that small businesses really aren't able to be successful during this time, especially in the state of Oregon."

Antifa claims they're defending their city not only against heavy-handed police tactics, but also from threats from far right extremists, groups like the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers -- leading to fierce standoffs.

"The use of violence is there to maintain safety for us and make sure that when people like Proud Boys or Nazis or fascists come to our city and want to do that harm, then we are not allowing that," Milo said.

They've received a sharp rebuke from the mayor, who is asking residents to help take back their city and be the eyes and ears of the Portland Police bureau.

"These people often arrive at their so-called direct actions in cars. And they're all dressed in all black. Our job is to unmask them, arrest them and prosecute them," Wheeler said at a video conference.

Individuals claiming to be antifa released a chilling video last week, containing a seemingly veiled threat against Mayor Wheeler and publicized his home address.

"The mayor of this city is undeserving of his position. He has made it abundantly clear that windows to him are more important than human lives," an unidentified voice in the video said. "Ted, we are asking for the last time that you resign. Blood is already on your hands, Ted. But next time, it may just be your own."

Neither Milo nor Ace say they know anything about that video to the mayor and defended their role within the community.

"Most of us are in this work to make our communities safe and to make our communities better," Milo said. "When we see that there are people that are coming to our home and to our city advocating violence against people of color, against queer people… then it is our responsibility as community members to confront that. We do not bring that fight. But we will meet it if it comes to us."

The group has become a lightning rod for controversy. They became known at the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 when an man punched white nationalist Richard Spencer during an interview.

"Donald Trump wanted to make them a boogeyman for everything," said Mark Bray, a history professor who studies Aantifa. "Certainly prior to Donald Trump being in the White House, antifa was not a household name in the United States."

Despite their notoriety, the group sees their fight as a moral and just one. Milo and Ace say they practice community organizing and empowerment, which includes publicly outing alleged fascists and other dangerous elements.

"A lot of our work is … compiling evidence of people's online personalities and their online conversations and how a lot of times we see far right folks really engaging in hate speech and misogynistic language and threats of violence online," Milo said.

Many here, including some exhausted business owners, seem increasingly receptive to the mayor's tough talk.

"I'm thankful for everybody in Portland who feels the need to fight for justice, fight for rights, fight for safety and everything," Williams told "Nightline." "But it has definitely affected our business, all the protesting and everything, in that people who are coming to visit town actually feel really unsafe."

A year of unrest has at times forced this barista to double as his own security.

"I was standing outside one night and somebody was like, 'Hey, man, I want you to go ahead and get yours, bust the door,'" encouraging him to take part in the destruction, he said. "I was like, 'No, I'm protecting my business.'"

"I guess the message would just be like, well, 'cut it out. Like, why are you even doing this?'" he said. "You really should be pulling up with the nails and hammers and helping me board up, you know, then instead of trying to bust down."

Margaret Carter's legacy of public service runs deep in Portland. She served as the first Black woman in the Portland state senate. She sympathizes with protesters, but is pained by their destructive tactics.

"I marched during the days of trying to make a difference. My voice has always been out there, but never, never did we create violence," Carter said. "When you think in terms of small businesses that are being hit, who are working very hard to just prepare a meal for their families, that really got my heart."

Milo and Ace defend the destruction as a tactic to apply pressure to city leaders.

"There are a lot of reasons why people would engage in property destruction," Milo said. "I think that one of the reasons that people will break windows is a lot of times symbolic of the way that the city will protect things of material value, but not its people."

However, Carter asks whether the protests are truly legitimate or just random acts of looting.

"Some of the people that have been identified was not Black Lives Matter people," she said. "They were young white kids coming from across the country."

Self-styled citizen journalist Garrison Davis has been reporting on Portland's front lines over the past year. He's witnessed sympathies waning for destructive tactics of some protesters.

"There's been a growing animosity towards some of the protests among, you know, the population of Portland," he said. "A lot of the people are tired. A lot of people are exhausted, the police force is getting tired. We're unsure of what direction this will head."
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 11:48:27 AM by arch warmonger »

Re: The growing DNC civil war
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2021, 10:20:42 PM »
America’s Deadly Domestic Extremism Worst In 24 Years, Reveals New FBI Report
Most extremist killings in 2019 were committed by white supremacists.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/deadly-domestic-extremism-worst-in-25-years-fbi-white-supremacists_n_60a0591ae4b03e1dd38a5b4e

Yeah--antifa is a HUGE problem!

And how can any rational person be opposed to groups who are anti-fascist ??!  Ooops--used the 'r' word; most of this country isn't that.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?