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Boulder shooting, Colorado

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Cassia:

drunkenshoe:

--- Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 23, 2021, 05:54:41 PM ---Yes. Additionally, nothing is going to change unless the culture changes. There are Americans whose sincere response to this shooting is for everyone to be armed. Many Americans feel it is perfectly acceptable to stand their ground and shoot people if they perceive themselves to be threatened. It's the first response to a perceived physical threat. I've asked people who own guns for protection if they considered non-lethal weapons and the answer is often no. I've asked if they have a home security system or motion sensor lights or security doors. Nope... but they have a gun. How many times when gun control measures in other countries are proposed in the US the response is "that won't work here."

--- End quote ---

Too young and too big. How many countries are there in the States, and how many cultures and sub cultures in them?

It's just about one place I guess, but when I first learned about the 'land rush' concept, I was pretty young and it blew my mind. I was like 'Wut?' :lol: I mean the country I live in, the republic (which is dead now) is a hundred years old, and the empire before that was just 600 years old, but groups of Turks have lived in Anatolia alone for a thousand years and before that in central Asia and around have changed places back in thousands of years more. Turkic poeple in general... Similar peoples with similar culture have been fighting each other since time immemorial. The historical structures, esp. religous structures have changed hands so many times, there are mosques built on churches built on ancient temples built on sacred places before that. There isn't a road or piece of dirt that isn't trodded on, some ruins that weren't built over and over again. There is no new land. Hasn't been any for sooo long a time. There are still land lords and tribes...that's why it keeps falling backwards.

But Americas. Esp the North America...Even though the most of the land is uninhabitable, there were no established arhcitectural, written culture when white Europeans invaded the land. Nothing but vast open space. How do you survive in a land like that? You get armed and you get extremely territorial. The land. You own up to it and fight for it to death. Your ancestors have shot horse thieves and whoever tresspass or threatened their land. Was there another way? Now they probably shoot car thieves and anyone gets into their property exactly the same. If this culture hadn't evolved this way, would there have been an America? Is it good, bad? From whose point of view?

Yeah, colonies had 'owners' in Europe before independence, but it must have been a real jungle for a very long time and that culture looks like it's still alive. How long has it been really? 200 years the most? Less? It's a very little amount of time for a new land and culture.

I have no idea. But American culture always looked too tough to me. Competititon is too harsh. Culture is too harsh on its people and so the people are too harsh on each other considering the opportunities the have. And so are the rules. It's cut off from the world. I might be wrong of course, but it looks like when you drop below a certain bar in the US, it is almost impossible to come back. It looks like the culture have less shades of grey, more black and white compared to the old world.
 

GSOgymrat:

--- Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 24, 2021, 06:35:33 AM ---Too young and too big. How many countries are there in the States, and how many cultures and sub cultures in them?

But Americas. Esp the North America...Even though the most of the land is uninhabitable, there were no established arhcitectural, written culture when white Europeans invaded the land. Nothing but vast open space. How do you survive in a land like that? You get armed and you get extremely territorial. The land. You own up to it and fight for it to death. Your ancestors have shot horse thieves and whoever tresspass or threatened their land. Was there another way? Now they probably shoot car thieves and anyone gets into their property exactly the same. If this culture hadn't evolved this way, would there have been an America? Is it good, bad? From whose point of view?

Yeah, colonies had 'owners' in Europe before independence, but it must have been a real jungle for a very long time and that culture looks like it's still alive. How long has it been really? 200 years the most? Less? It's a very little amount of time for a new land and culture.

--- End quote ---

A comparison between Australia and North America would be interesting. Both were colonized by Europeans, Australia later than North America.

Per 100,000 people:
Homicide rate: USA=4.96, Australia=0.89
Firearm-related death rate: USA=12.21, Australia=1.04
Suicide rate: USA=13.7, Australia=11.7



Of course, just looking at statistics doesn't mean much. It would be interesting to read a comparison of how each culture evolved in terms of government, violence, and conflict.


--- Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 24, 2021, 06:35:33 AM ---But American culture always looked too tough to me. Competititon is too harsh. Culture is too harsh on its people and so the people are too harsh on each other considering the opportunities the have. And so are the rules. It's cut off from the world. I might be wrong of course, but it looks like when you drop below a certain bar in the US, it is almost impossible to come back. It looks like the culture have less shades of grey, more black and white compared to the old world.

--- End quote ---

I think American culture is generally more individualistic and competitive than many other cultures. We say we are family-oriented but typically multiple generations don't live in the same household or even the same city. Starting at birth, we want our kids in the best daycare, the best school, the best peer group, the best sports team, the best college, the best career... "Average" is a pejorative. We are a nation of loud, glorious winners and silent, tragic losers.

Hydra009:

--- Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 24, 2021, 09:38:00 AM ---Of course, just looking at statistics doesn't mean much. It would be interesting to read a comparison of how each culture evolved in terms of government, violence, and conflict.
--- End quote ---
Australia had a particularly horrific mass shooting at Port Arthur and as a result, adopted much stricter gun laws.

The USA, in contrast, suffers horrific mass shootings on the regular and adopted upside-down graphs that make the problem look less like a problem.



drunkenshoe:

--- Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 24, 2021, 09:38:00 AM ---...I think American culture is generally more individualistic and competitive than many other cultures. We say we are family-oriented but typically multiple generations don't live in the same household or even the same city. Starting at birth, we want our kids in the best daycare, the best school, the best peer group, the best sports team, the best college, the best career... "Average" is a pejorative. We are a nation of loud, glorious winners and silent, tragic losers.

--- End quote ---

Agreed. I don't think you are family oriented in a different way. The general human culture defines being family oriented as something positive and I think that is the reason peoples, cultures like to think they are. I don't agree that being family oriented is a 'good' thing for a society considering almost no culture in the world is free from some level of religious or nationalist indoctrination in childhood. Esp. religion. 

For American culture, the freedom and some sort of an American dream...etc. seems to be highly functional -at least as a motivation- in domestic level. So people leave their families at a young age, to get into to the competition, but also the hot zones in the jungle are the places they can live their lives with their own identities and beliefs, free and away from what they were born into - which is something we can't choose. That's a pretty big motivation for a lot of groups. Also these people are the people who push and preserve these places with those higher standards.

Now, this is technically the same everywhere around the world, but as the US is so huge, diverse and practically made of different many countries where the competititon is too high, the big pic is different than other places, imo. You need to travel hours with a plane, not hours with a car or a bus to reach your family. This is pretty important. Because domestic travel in the US means serious time, money and  planning beforehand. (If we want to visit some family in another city, we jump in a car and drive for 5 hours, that's it. I travel for an hour to see my parents at the summer house, and there is commercial transportation at every hour. The longest distance in the country is 2 hours by plane.)

That transforms the human, family relationships and connections strongly, and probably the American culture evolved in a more individualistic way also because of this. And it probably contributed to the over all 'professionalism'. Most people do not care how their offspring lives as long as they are healthy and fine. And this vision requires nontribal human connections, pushes the family culture to be that way. Yes, it also puts a natural distance between all people, but I don't agree that it is something bad. It's pretty good actually. Because in opposite, so called warm and hospitable cultures that warmth and hospitality have a price. You know what it is. People are living in each other's lives, parents and people in powerful positions in groups, dictate, oppress, even harm and injure, kill others. It's a big scale with shades of greys and black.  (This exists in secular groups too.) So it is bullshit. It's shit. If you are not living in that majority, you are naturally alienated. Yeah it's much better than the option imo, but far less practical in many ways.

So it is a good cultural trait in my opinion.

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