Author Topic: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals  (Read 899 times)

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2021, 02:07:03 PM »
Sure. But certain subgroups I'll say, I'm sick of religious terms, thrives on it. Honestly, looking at Sunnis, to Shis AND then Alevits, there is a great difference in that department or maybe I perceive it that way. E: Evangelicals have a different place in that sense too in a bad way.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 02:17:34 PM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2021, 05:12:37 PM »
Drunkenshoe, I know you dislike surveys but...

White Evangelicals Are More Likely to Believe in QAnon Than Any Other Faith Group, Poll Finds

... In the survey conducted by the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), 27 percent of white evangelicals said it was "mostly" or "completely" accurate to say that Trump "has been secretly fighting a group of child sex traffickers that include prominent Democrats and Hollywood elites."

That percentage is higher than any other faith group surveyed, and more than double the support for QAnon beliefs among Black Protestants, Hispanic Catholics and non-Christians, according to data shared Thursday with Newsweek.

"White evangelical Protestants are much more likely than other religious groups to believe that Trump has been secretly fighting a child-sex-trafficking ring that includes prominent people on the left," Daniel Cox, the author of the survey and director of the AEI Survey Center on American Life, told Newsweek.

This wasn't the only conspiracy category where white evangelicals held the strongest belief, Cox added.

"White evangelical Protestants are also much more likely to say that the deep state has been working to undermine the Trump administration and that antifa was mostly responsible for the violence at the U.S. Capitol," he said.

The survey also found that white evangelicals express more pride in being American than any other religious group, with 50 percent of respondents saying they are "extremely proud" of their national identity.
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2021, 06:58:12 PM »
Safe to say there is plenty of "preconditioning" to believing what they are told without any evidence amongst evangelicals. Literal interpretation of the holy books is a form of insanity IMHO. Qanon theories are rather mundane compared to claims written in holy books

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2021, 09:48:49 PM »
Drunkenshoe, I know you dislike surveys but...

White Evangelicals Are More Likely to Believe in QAnon Than Any Other Faith Group, Poll Finds

Well, they are like the enthusiastic group going for camping singing songs, while the rest stays in school compared to other Christian groups. They do really share with QANON. They both believe they are saving the world and that the rest is the enemy. 

Quote
...Supporters of the conspiracy also believed that Trump would reveal his commitment to taking down the sex trafficking on the day of Biden's inauguration, and subsequently remain in office. ...

Why is remaining in the office subsequent to revealing his commitment to taking down sex traffickers? Why does he announce that first and then the presidency?
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2021, 11:15:49 PM »
Why is remaining in the office subsequent to revealing his commitment to taking down sex traffickers? Why does he announce that first and then the presidency?

Far be it from me to explain the reasoning of Christians but this sounds like Trump was going to "blow the case wide open" on the cannibal sex ring, kind of like revealing that the DNC is run by alien lizard humanoids, and then everyone would be begging him to take office. He would be the savior of America!

BLESSED IS THE DONALD!!! πŸ™πŸ™πŸ™πŸ™πŸ™

« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 11:27:24 PM by GSOgymrat »
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2021, 06:25:23 AM »
Hmm... The long story short, the systematic mass child abuse by Catholic priests; their detailed, life long protection is a massive real world and life issue Christian circles cannot deal with. (Catholic or protestant...etc. In this context, that's not really important. It's about the traditional position, the general trust and respect the clergy enjoys. That's how the money flows in.) It's not going to go away and will only grow. What do you do with something you can't deal? You transform and project it. It's a real issue and all that batshit crazy stuff has to have some connection to reality. Well, it is not going to be gun violence, or distribution of wealth, poverty, environment or growing homeless population, is it? It needs to be something emotionally abusive, spiking ire, definitely sexual in nature (the biggest religious obsession) something disgusted by everyone on principle.

So, I think if it wasn't for this major issue effecting their general identity, reputation seriously Orange's first deed as a saviour wouldn't be the pedohile rings. These people have a child like mind. They really do see him like a 5 year old sees Superman. So it is a traditional heroic deed, a signature to prove himself.

[The long part is... Today, the systematic sexual abuse of Catholic priests is a mainstream issue. It's huge, massive. A relatively short time ago it wasn't. Sure, some people knew about it here and there, but it wasn't in the open. That's the crucial thing. This issue is not just something about the crimes commited against thousands of children and adults, but it is also a global crisis and the biggest impact on Christianity in general, which is the major religious base of Western culture. Well, actually it's more accurate to say, it would have been a global crisis for Christianity because 9/11 has changed everything and created a very different world. (I remember watching videos of specific protestors from Europe in mid 90s, they also used to join every kind of major protests to make this issue known. That's actually how I strated to learn about it back then. But there wasn't anything in hand's reach.)

Now, if you have an experience of pre-9/11 world as an adult, it is a 'place' where the media is still dictated by the prime time news in television news channels. That means when something big happens, everywhere around the world people get the same news at the same time. and that's what they've planned and wanted to do with these cases. Exploding the whole thing at once left and right, starting a chain reaction in a time when they can demand the attention of most people altogether. Imagine that. The cases are so openly ugly and straight, weeks and months on end people would have listened or watched about these priests, the ones at the top level protecting them. Thousands upon thousands. Well, it didn't happen. And it has become this big issue going slow, coming and going out of media in parts, and so a huge space is provided for its denial. Most of the people choose not to even pay attention to it. Because it's religion, because they are priests and humans have this incredible defense and denial mechanism, esp. when they believe in something. (There are conspiracy theories about this related to 'one stone 10 bird' 9/11 as you would imagine.)

And then the post 9/11 world politics are based on religious division. It's actually boosted religious groups, forced them to come together. Terrorism, daily life, wars, new media mediums, new trade and economy forms, new laws, fractions. A whole new culture. Terrorism, ideologies and identities have become a new products to sell like shampoo. So the reception and the perception of these crimes and events have changed. Sure everyone is angry and think it's horrendous. That's not the point. Also today, most people would openly say they don't care about it or defend that nobody should care about it because, if someone is stupid enough being that religous, and leave their children with these people, they deserve the face these kind of consequences. Yeah the red pill, post truth zeitgeist.

The point is, it scared the hell out of all the religious circles everywhere around the world when it's become a widely known issue. Because child abuse first, any kind of sexual abuse in general is the main issue in every religious institution. It's a never ending attrocity. Religion is the perfect heaven for these crimes. It scared the hell out of religious people, annoyed and triggered many of them and they've started to hold on anything to deny it. There are cases of priests who's commited these crimes for 50 years while being protected and circulated around. It goes back to around WWI. There isn't a one thing to hold on. It's an unbelievable mess.

It's still largely denied by 'not all of priests like that'. Whatever the fuck that means. Yeah dear millenials, before NAWALT and NAMALT, there was the NAPALT! The history, cultural history lessons in the 22 century will be a 'hoot' and will 25+ age restriction.]

« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 06:37:03 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2021, 07:45:58 AM »
Far be it from me to explain the reasoning of Christians but this sounds like Trump was going to "blow the case wide open" on the cannibal sex ring, kind of like revealing that the DNC is run by alien lizard humanoids, and then everyone would be begging him to take office. He would be the savior of America!

BLESSED IS THE DONALD!!! πŸ™πŸ™πŸ™πŸ™πŸ™



lol. I might make that my new avatar.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2021, 12:31:19 PM »
More evangelical Christian nonsense.

"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2021, 03:31:52 AM »
More evangelical Christian nonsense.



"Evangelical University" sounds like an oxymoron.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2021, 04:58:22 AM »
More evangelical Christian nonsense.



OK. I don't get something. Paraphrasing- 'if students do not feel bad about their sexual activities, repent...etc. they would need to see a chaplain and/or risk suspension'. This probbaly means there is a door for expulsion. Can they do that? In what frame? As far as I know, the United States doesn't have adultery laws. I don't know if there is anything in the constitution protecting sexual rights, but I doubt if they can legally suspend someone from some place for having sex. What do they do? Make people sign some sort of a waiver?

However, instead of taking this from any sort of possible legal angle, taking religious sexual oppression issue from the abuse aspect is actually playing into this very religous play and feeding it. Because that's the whole point. It is about turning people into self hating, bitter, angry, agitated, helpless beings, and sexual humiliation, shaming is a guaranteed way to provide that. Human culture figured that out eons ago.  And as humans are very unsuccessful with supressing this at esp. young ages, it is the confirmation, 'relevation' about human nature, the religious definition of human, branding it into their brains. "See, religion is right, you are all of full of sin and naturally evil."

Also there is another point of this merging with the far right, atheist red pill groups. As sex is not a need for survival, celibacy to the point of no masturbation is imposed on young men to 'strengthen' their manhood, stay away from females and be agressive with them while interacting. In other religious-far right cultures, this is consciously done for keeping males sexually agressive. It's the imposed definition of 'male'. Because it's a good way of shooting pretty big birds with one stone. Instilling fear and providing control. It normalises sexual abuse, rape and transforms them into normal consequences of human interaction for males; punishment for females. (I'm taking it from het angle as both groups are very hostile to lgbtq+ groups.) 

So, while the religious environments he is describing is very unhealthy places for people, bluntly put, it is redundant and late for taking this from a pyschological abuse angle. Unfortunately, from what I observe, American society is going under this specific transformation right now bit by bit, but as it is constantly compared with 3rd world cultures, esp. islamic ones, it seems to escape most people in daily life. People don't even think it is possible. Exactly like the people where I live 20, actually 10 years ago. The irony.

Because, again, fear changes human behaviour. When women start to feel afraid to go out to get drunk and slutty if you will, the whole society changes. Yeah well, genders are not equal in this sense. Because then that society becomes hell for most of the males too. It's a very sneaky, unbelievable process. Nobody is aware when it is happening and then suddenly it is there.

People need to fight more solid, legal battles with this. "I was feeling this... people start to feel that way..." These groups perfectly know what they are doing. They are trying to transform the society on a schedule, step by step, and people are talking about the individual pyschology of the thing.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 05:02:05 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2021, 11:04:59 PM »
I heard that Katie Perry's (I think it was) parents are preachers, they have a charity (don't know what it's supposed to be for) that they used 96% of for their own needs. That's exactly what religion is for, fleecing the sheep.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2021, 09:28:49 AM »
Religious conservatives of Tennessee continue their campaign:

- Rep. Jerry Sexton introduced a house joint resolution, HJR 150, to make the Bible the official book of Tennessee. This is the third time conservatives have tried this.

- In response to diversity training, HB 372/SB 193 would prevent the government from requiring employees to participate in trainings and seminars that go against their morals, ethics, values or religious beliefs.

- To allow people to congregate in churches during pandemics, HB 1137/SB 1197 would prohibit public officials and government agencies from placing restrictions on churches and other religious organizations during a state of emergency or other disasters.

- Senate Joint Resolution 55 proposes amending the Tennessee constitution to remove the ban on clergy serving in the state legislature. While still on the books, the provision is outdated. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1961 that religious tests for holding public office are unconstitutional. Currently, there are members of the state legislature that are also ministers. However SJR 55 does not address the state constitution's ban on atheists serving in public office.

- A newly proposed bill in Tennessee would make it even more difficult to protest in the state -- by making obstructing a highway a felony and giving immunity to drivers who unintentionally (Oops!) injure or kill those in the way.
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2021, 10:04:09 AM »
Interesting article on how evangelicals became anti-intellectual and why they are vulnerable to misinformation.

The Wasting of the Evangelical Mind

... A recent survey, conducted by the American Enterprise Institute, found that more than a quarter of white evangelicals believe that Donald Trump has been secretly battling β€œa group of child sex traffickers that include prominent Democrats and Hollywood elites,” a core tenet of the QAnon conspiracy theory. The data suggest a faith-based reality divide emerging within the Republican Party: nearly three-quarters of white evangelical Republicans believe widespread voter fraud took place in the 2020 election, compared with fifty-four per cent of non-evangelical Republicans; sixty per cent of white evangelical Republicans believe that Antifa, the antifascist group, was mostly responsible for the violence in the Capitol riot, compared with forty-two per cent of non-evangelical Republicans. Other surveys have found that white evangelicals are much more skeptical of the COVID-19 vaccine and are less likely than other Americans to get it, potentially jeopardizing the country’s recovery from the pandemic. ...

Evangelicalism in America, however, has come to be defined by its anti-intellectualism. The style of the most popular and influential pastors tend to correlate with shallowness: charisma trumps expertise; scientific authority is often viewed with suspicion. So it is of little surprise that American evangelicals have become vulnerable to demagoguery and misinformation. ...

β€œThe scandal of the evangelical mind is there is not much of an evangelical mind.”
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2021, 12:51:34 PM »
Christian woman tries to convert kids after mistakenly assuming they're gay in cringe-inducing video

(Video in the link)

A Christian woman was caught on camera recently freaking out two young boys after she tried to convert them while they were eating a meal at a restaurant and mistakenly assuming they were gay.

A video posted on TikTok this week shows the two boys trying to eat at a restaurant before being accosted by a woman who started asking them questions such as whether they go to church or if they know how to get into Heaven.

"I don't know you... at all," one of the boys tells the woman.

"I know, I know," the woman replies. "I just see you guys and you guys aren't, like, girlfriends, are you?"

"No," the boy responds. "We're cousins."

"OK, all right." the woman says.

"But if it was, it's genuinely none of your business," the boy says.

"You're right, you're right," the woman says defensively. "But I just want to let you guys know because they don't teach you young kids about God anymore and it's just not the right way to live!"

The boy tells the woman that he's disturbed that she came "out of nowhere" to ask them if they were gay, and the woman replies that God instructed her to come talk to them.



This reminds me of years ago when I was on a date with a guy at Dollywood. We were sitting at a table sharing an ice cream, each with our own spoon, and this elderly woman walks up and says, "I just think the two of you are HORRIBLE! Just HORRIBLE! You're going to hell!" It was so out of the blue I started laughing but my date was very upset by it.
"Religions are like fireflies. They require darkness in order to shine." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Three things people get wrong about evangelicals
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2021, 01:07:58 PM »
This reminds me of years ago when I was on a date with a guy at Dollywood. We were sitting at a table sharing an ice cream, each with our own spoon, and this elderly woman walks up and says, "I just think the two of you are HORRIBLE! Just HORRIBLE! You're going to hell!" It was so out of the blue I started laughing but my date was very upset by it.

Good attitude. :lol:

But I still miantain that is pure jealousy. There is no other explanation of someone giving that sudden, angry reaction to a scene like that.Let's say, someone could feel/think that it is wrong, bad... whatever because of their belief...blah blah. But people bursting with anger like that...naaah, sorry that's something else, even if not the very thing. 
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari