Author Topic: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.  (Read 13152 times)

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2020, 08:15:31 PM »
The thing is we really can't know what God fully is. Like I keep saying God is beyond the physical universe. The only that we can know anything about God is through His qualities, names and attributes, and the human being is the best animal to manifest those to the physical world.
How can we know anything about God's qualities, names and attributes? And what do you believe those qualities, names and attributes are?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Offline Sal1981

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2020, 08:52:35 PM »
The thing is we really can't know what God fully is. Like I keep saying God is beyond the physical universe. The only that we can know anything about God is through His qualities, names and attributes, and the human being is the best animal to manifest those to the physical world.
That's a Catch-22. You say you cannot know anything of god, yet you profess knowledge about god through his qualities, names and attributes.

You can't have a cake and eat it too.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Online Hydra009

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2020, 08:57:17 PM »
God exists, and the human being is the best proof.
Let's say that I believe in ghosts.  Ghosts aren't visible nor audible nor can they interact with the world (they cannot pick up objects, their hands just go right through them)

How then, can I say that they have hands?  Or exist at all?

Any of this getting through?

Online Hydra009

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2020, 09:01:01 PM »
Well just like I said the one true God that created the universe and all that's in it. He's also the originator of all the religions.
Do you feel that you have to be vague about this God's identity so that any theist reading your partially-coherent ramblings can say that you're advancing their belief?  If you were more specific, would this ad hoc alliance of vagueries fall apart?

Online Hydra009

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2020, 09:04:33 PM »
That's a Catch-22. You say you cannot know anything of god, yet you profess knowledge about god through his qualities, names and attributes.

You can't have a cake and eat it too.
And the fact that this is the angle of approach is very telling.  God is something that is absolutely in evidence when claiming that he exists, but nowhere to be found - outside our universe apparently - when it comes to actually substantiating that rather bold claim.  How suspiciously convenient for the believer.

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2020, 09:53:57 PM »
How can we know anything about God's qualities, names and attributes? And what do you believe those qualities, names and attributes are?
We know about those qualities mainly through the human being. The names and attributes of God are basically all the good qualities that the human being can have. We just don't call them that.

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2020, 10:14:10 PM »
That's a Catch-22. You say you cannot know anything of god, yet you profess knowledge about god through his qualities, names and attributes.

You can't have a cake and eat it too.
I said that we can never know God "fully" or "completely".
And that the human being is the greatest sign, evidence and proof of the existence of God.

But it's actually good that you asked me that.
Let me tell you where I got this knowledge from.

I know that I talked about how the human being is the best evidence of God and that that the human being has the potential to display all of the names and attributes of God at the highest level. But there are beings that are on a higher level than the regular human being. These beings are known as the Prophets / Messengers of God.

The Prophets / Messengers [or what we know them as Manifestations in the baha'i scriptures] can display all of tthe names and attributes of God at the highest level "perfectly".
So if you "really" want to know God, the "absolute" best to do that is to know the Prophets / Messengers / Manifestations of God. And Baha'u'llah is the latest of these Messengers.

Baha'u'llah says in the Kitáb-i-íqán:
"And of all men, the most accomplished, the most distinguished and the most excellent are the Manifestations of the Sun of Truth. Nay, all else besides these Manifestations, live by the operation of their Will, and move and have their being through the outpourings of their grace. “But for Thee, I would have not created the heavens.” Nay, all in their holy presence fade into utter nothingness, and are a thing forgotten. Human tongue can never befittingly sing their praise, and human speech can never unfold their mystery. These Tabernacles of holiness, these primal Mirrors which reflect the light of unfading glory, are but expressions of Him Who is the Invisible of the Invisibles. By the revelation of these gems of divine virtue all the names and attributes of God, such as knowledge and power, sovereignty and dominion, mercy and wisdom, glory, bounty and grace, are made manifest".

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2020, 10:26:40 PM »
Let's say that I believe in ghosts.  Ghosts aren't visible nor audible nor can they interact with the world (they cannot pick up objects, their hands just go right through them)

How then, can I say that they have hands?  Or exist at all?

Any of this getting through?
Well we have to ask some honest questions first.
Why do you believe in ghosts, what are the nature of ghosts, are are the purpose of ghosts in the fist place? Who taught you about ghosts in the fist place?
Those kind of questions have to be answered first.

You said that ghost aren't visible so do you know if your hands can go through them if they aren't really visible?

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2020, 10:29:38 PM »
Do you feel that you have to be vague about this God's identity so that any theist reading your partially-coherent ramblings can say that you're advancing their belief?  If you were more specific, would this ad hoc alliance of vagueries fall apart?
Let me tell you where I got this knowledge from.

I know that I talked about how the human being is the best evidence of God and that that the human being has the potential to display all of the names and attributes of God at the highest level. But there are beings that are on a higher level than the regular human being. These beings are known as the Prophets / Messengers of God.

The Prophets / Messengers [or what we know them as Manifestations in the baha'i scriptures] can display all of tthe names and attributes of God at the highest level "perfectly".
So if you "really" want to know God, the "absolute" best to do that is to know the Prophets / Messengers / Manifestations of God. And Baha'u'llah is the latest of these Messengers.

Baha'u'llah says in the Kitáb-i-íqán:
"And of all men, the most accomplished, the most distinguished and the most excellent are the Manifestations of the Sun of Truth. Nay, all else besides these Manifestations, live by the operation of their Will, and move and have their being through the outpourings of their grace. “But for Thee, I would have not created the heavens.” Nay, all in their holy presence fade into utter nothingness, and are a thing forgotten. Human tongue can never befittingly sing their praise, and human speech can never unfold their mystery. These Tabernacles of holiness, these primal Mirrors which reflect the light of unfading glory, are but expressions of Him Who is the Invisible of the Invisibles. By the revelation of these gems of divine virtue all the names and attributes of God, such as knowledge and power, sovereignty and dominion, mercy and wisdom, glory, bounty and grace, are made manifest".

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2020, 10:35:35 PM »
And the fact that this is the angle of approach is very telling.  God is something that is absolutely in evidence when claiming that he exists, but nowhere to be found - outside our universe apparently - when it comes to actually substantiating that rather bold claim.  How suspiciously convenient for the believer.
The best evidence for God is the human being.
You will never have physical evidence of God itself.

If you "really" want to know God,  the "absolute" best way to do that is to know the Prophets / Messengers / Manifestations. And Baha'u'llah is the latest in those Messengers.

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2020, 11:17:24 PM »
It can't be supported physically because God is not even apart of the physical universe, God is beyond the physical universe. We can only verify that God exists through His names and attributes, which is manifested in the physical universe.

Okay. Let me put it this way. Do you believe that God actively interacts with the universe, or that he's a silent observer? If the former, then he can be studied. If the latter, then we might as well not even have a god.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2020, 11:21:41 PM »
The best evidence for God is the human being.
You will never have physical evidence of God itself.

If you "really" want to know God,  the "absolute" best way to do that is to know the Prophets / Messengers / Manifestations. And Baha'u'llah is the latest in those Messengers.

The human being is the product of billions of years of evolution. We are extremely specialized primates, whose survival has become dependent on cooperation and the use of tools. That's it.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Online Hydra009

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2020, 11:21:56 PM »
Well we have to ask some honest questions first.
Why do you believe in ghosts, what are the nature of ghosts, are are the purpose of ghosts in the fist place? Who taught you about ghosts in the fist place?
Those kind of questions have to be answered first.
Let's say you are someone who understands a hypothetical...

And as far as honesty goes, there's a woeful lack of it so far.  If you continue to play proselytizing games instead of responding with sincerity, you will earn nothing but disdain - and well deserve it.

Quote
You said that ghost aren't visible so do you know if your hands can go through them if they aren't really visible?
This reply is akin to getting an example question on an exam - complete with question and answer - and then feebly scrawling the same answer in the margin.  In crayon.

Online Hydra009

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2020, 11:34:29 PM »
The best evidence for God is the human being.
And a dove is evidence of a plane.  That's an equally sensible inference.  And the plane at least has the good sense to be a part of our universe to be examined.  :P

Quote
You will never have physical evidence of God itself.
This would have been an opportune thing to say when you claimed to have evidence.

Also, you seem to bounce back and forth on this question quite a bit - complete certitude to ironclad skepticism.  Do you need a minute to think it over?  Or a minute to get your story straight?  Please, take your time.  It is far better to say something intelligent an hour late than to say something foolish in haste.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 12:28:30 AM by Hydra009 »

Re: A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2020, 11:44:18 PM »
The human being is the product of billions of years of evolution. We are extremely specialized primates, whose survival has become dependent on cooperation and the use of tools. That's it.
Yes, animal/physical evolution did happen. But the human being is far beyond mere animal evolution and that is evident  with what the human can do and accomplish.