You're all wasting your time

[DeltaEpsilon]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the arguments that you guys make. I just think that arguing with stubborn theists is a waste of your time. Theists are notorious for using the samge incorrect arguments ad nauseam, you're not that different other than the fact you're right.

Humans are innately stubborn and irrational creatures. Some substances ("mind altering" drugs) may make them more open but otherwise trying to convert theists to atheists is an exercise in futility. People should just accept atheism, separate church and state, prevent theists from poisoning the minds of children and prevent the government from funding churches. You should do what you can in those regards and turn your passion for complaining about the stupidity of theists and "social justice warriors" and turn that passion to STEM. Do your part to keep irrationality from the minds of our impressionable youth and the state.

[Nonsensei]

To be honest, we spend like 95% of our time arguing with each other over topics that have nothing to do with religion.

[Shiranu]

Haha, if you think theists are stubborn, just wait till you see a bit more of us.

[stromboli]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the arguments that you guys make. I just think that arguing with stubborn theists is a waste of your time. Theists are notorious for using the samge incorrect arguments ad nauseam, you're not that different other than the fact you're right.

Humans are innately stubborn and irrational creatures. Some substances ("mind altering" drugs) may make them more open but otherwise trying to convert theists to atheists is an exercise in futility. People should just accept atheism, separate church and state, prevent theists from poisoning the minds of children and prevent the government from funding churches. You should do what you can in those regards and turn your passion for complaining about the stupidity of theists and "social justice warriors" and turn that passion to STEM. Do your part to keep irrationality from the minds of our impressionable youth and the state.

I'm retired. I have lots of time. And it is an exercise in futility but we really aren't trying to convert anyone, just stretching our own mental muscles. We have actually converted a few over the years, but we generally look at them as chew toys.

And as nonsensei pointed out we debate each other much more than theists. They show up, they get dealt with.

[pr126]

Religion is not the only form of irrationality.

Look at university campuses for example.
There are a whole variety of irrationalities, just as divisive, just as harmful as any religion.

But they are "freethinking" irrationalities, so they are OK.

Case in point

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the arguments that you guys make. I just think that arguing with stubborn theists is a waste of your time. Theists are notorious for using the samge incorrect arguments ad nauseam, you're not that different other than the fact you're right. 

We're not talking to the theists, we're talking to the peanut gallery. They make an assertion, we point out where they're wrong.

[DeltaEpsilon]

We're not talking to the theists, we're talking to the peanut gallery. They make an assertion, we point out where they're wrong.

I'm talking about the "new atheist" community.

[widdershins]

Haha, if you think theists are stubborn, just wait till you see a bit more of us.

And on that note, let me introduce myself....  Pickled knows what I'm talking about.

[widdershins]

I'm talking about the "new atheist" community.

Arguing with even the dumbest, most stubborn, most irritating theist has its advantages.  We all hear theistic arguments all the time, but until you've sat down and argued against them you can never really appreciate how stacked the deck is for them.  Some of their arguments are so sly and subtle that you may argue against them for a couple weeks before you finally see the intellectual dishonesty in the argument.  It wasn't until I started doing that here that I finally realized that they ALL have some intellectually dishonest component.  Now that I know it's there, now that I know to look for it, it's usually pretty easy to find, which makes examining the argument interesting.

I'll admit, it is a futile exercise from the point of view of trying to deconvert them.  But that's never my goal.  I don't want to take anyone's beliefs away from them.  I don't care what you believe.  I just want you to deliver an honest argument, and that goes for anyone, not just theists, including myself.  I always approach it in the hope that they will be intellectually capable and honest enough to understand the flaws that I point out in their arguments.  Of course nobody ever wants to admit that they were wrong about something they argued heatedly.  The longer the argument goes on the more off-track the argument gets, the sloppier the conversation gets, the more nit-picky the argument gets and the angrier the arguers get.  All of this works against my goal and I have yet to master calmly and patiently keeping my point on track, but that is the ultimate goal.

For me, examining arguments, locating the dishonest bits (which are generally presumptions not openly spoken, making them harder to find and discredit) and picking apart they "why and how" of where the argument gets dishonest is a challenge.  It's an examination of the psyche of the arguer, which I find fascinating.  Of course, throwing it in their face when I find it, that's also fun, but in a far less mature way.  It always devolves into monkeys throwing shit at each other.  But that's not the part I do it for.  I do it for the part where I find the unspoken bit that they didn't even know was in there.  And, always, with the hope that I will actually make them aware of this flaw, make them understand and accept it as the flaw that it is.  That doesn't really happen, unfortunately, but what has happened is that I have a much greater understanding of arguments and the psychology behind them than I did before I started arguing.  That, to me, is worth every second spent.

And now for something completely different.  "Do not try to to win the argument.  That would be impossible.  Instead only try to realize the truth: There is no argument."

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm talking about the "new atheist" community.

Define "new atheist", please.

[DeltaEpsilon]

Define "new atheist", please.

New Atheism is a contemporary intellectual movement uniting outspoken atheists. The New Atheists' philosophies and arguments are generally consistent with those of their predecessors; what's "New" is a difference in style and profitability.

[stromboli]

I argue with theists just because it gives me mental exercise and makes me research stuff so I know I'm not presenting off the wall arguments. as an old man, mental exercise is a good idea.

[Unbeliever]

We are born and we die; and between these two most important events in our lives more or less time elapses which we have to waste somehow or other. In the end it does not seem to matter much whether we have done so in making money, or practicing law, or reading or playing, or in any other way, as long as we felt we were deriving a maximum of happiness out of our doings.

All any of us can do is waste time, so we can waste it in any way we choose.

[SGOS]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the arguments that you guys make. I just think that arguing with stubborn theists is a waste of your time.

Of course it's a waste of time.  That's the whole point of the forum.

[Mermaid]

To be honest, we spend like 95% of our time arguing with each other over topics that have nothing to do with religion.

No we don't.