If there is no God. Then someone explain life.

[Solomon Zorn]

Where is this Purgatory?  Do members have access?

Masochism much?

[Solomon Zorn]

Just in case g2perk is still reading this thread, and having no more interest in his replies, I'll try two more appeals.

First an appeal to reason:

Since you like to simplify things, maybe you can get something out of this, if you measure your arguments by it.


If I could add one more commandment, it would be, "Thou shalt not argue using a threat(such as the threat of Hell)," -  Ad Baculum Fallacy


Second an appeal to emotion, taken from events in the news:

“The Anti-Miracle”
Solomon Zorn


One anti-miracle
Came to a two-year-old
Safe in his front yard at play
Killed by a stray bullet
Shot by an idiot
Coming from three blocks away
Coming from three blocks away

Odds against hitting him
Made the chance very slim
He was in danger from guns
Waved around randomly
Perfect trajectory
Must be a million-to-one
Must be a million-to-one

Flight path was so narrow
Twitching the gun barrel
Just to the left or the right
Would make it deviate
Changing a tragic fate
Far from the guns and the fight
Far from the guns and the fight

One anti-miracle
Came to an eight-year-old
Safe in her bedroom asleep
Who kneeling on the floor
Just a short time before
Prayed that her soul she could keep
Prayed that her soul she could keep

Leaning across the creek
Tree became very weak
Sound of a “CRACK” split the night
Crushed by the ancient fir
Falling on top of her
No chance to run or to fight
No chance to run or to fight


Searching the rubble
Their hope is a bubble
Where children are safe in their beds
But the reality
Comes with finality
Finding the little one dead
Finding the little one dead

One anti-miracle
Came to to a young couple
This one was really bizarre
None could anticipate
Such an unlikely fate
Driving in separate cars
Driving in separate cars

One headed into town
One of them homeward bound
Taking a casual ride
As the two crest a hill
Both of the lovers killed
When their two autos collide
When their two autos collide

Every miracle
Has a reciprocal
Nothing divine intervenes
Blessings and incidents
Are but coincidence
Crediting God is obscene
Crediting God is obscene



“Fingers”
Solomon Zorn

Fingers chopped off,
In the shredder,
Little girl
Asks her father,

“Will the Lord,
With his great power,
Make them grow back
In an hour?”

“Will he hear me
When I pray,
Make them grow back
In a day?”

“Tell me father,
Be sincere,
Will they grow back
In a year?”

Father doesn't
Dare reply,
With some
Condescending lie.

As his daughter
Bows to pray,
Father has
No words to say.

God should give
An explanation,
For this
Senseless amputation.

God should tell her
His intention,
When withholding
Intervention.

Leaving fingers
To be severed,
Tell her why
They're gone forever.

Father swallows
Past a lump
Seeing tragic
Little stump

Hand and nub
Are posed in prayer
To a God
That isn't there

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Maybe Wolf can create another sub-forum like purgatory.  We could call it "Day Care."

Call it "Shig-Pit Holler".

[PickelledEggs]

Masochism much?

He could be like me and just enjoy the torture of others...


...on occasion, of course.

[Unbeliever]

Where is this Purgatory?  Do members have access?

I hope Gerard doesn't get too lonely in there...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

g2perks, just want you to know that we miss you out here in the world we can post anywhere. Really,



not.

[Baruch]

On the divinity of Julius Caesar or Caesar Augustus ... their culture was quite different from ours ... we worship sports stars and movie stars, and music stars ... not generals.  But people being people, we are no different.  We wear a different toga is all.

Claiming divinity for living men was a recent idea in Greco-Roman culture ... originally only dead legendary or mythical persons could be claimed.  Alexander the Great started the megalomania, that led to the deification of Augustus, which is what led to the New Testament and the rebellion of the Jewish people.  That and Persian sabotage ;-)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Who do I worship, I wonder.

[trdsf]

I don't even get the logic behind the challenge.  Theists posit a God and some of them say that God explains everything.  Atheists don't.  That doesn't mean that atheists can explain everything, because obviously, we can't.  Theists don't have all the answers either, but some of them have fooled themselves into thinking all the answers are in their holy book.  But that's not better.  Believing that you know things you obviously don't is much worse than being honest about your ignorance.

Besides, it's not like the unknown is immediately a point for Jesus.  "Tide goes in, tide goes out.  Can't explain that."  By golly he's right, I guess it's time to get on my hands and knees and convert.  No, it doesn't work like that.  If anything, pointing out humanity's ignorance on a subject just motivates intelligent people to figure it out, not to give up and resort to a magical explanation.

This whole thing is like arguing with someone about ghosts and them saying "If ghosts aren't real, then what happens to people when they die?  And how do you explain every ghost sighting?"  So, I have to definitively prove that consciousness doesn't exist after death and debunk every reported ghost sighting or ghosts are real?  That's a impossibly high standard to meet to maintain skepticism.  And I've noticed that these impossible standards only apply to whatever supernatural being the author believes in, rather than supernatural beings in general.  One can conclude that the divinity of Julius Caesar is bullshit at the drop of a hat, but to make a similar judgement on the divinity of Jesus, you apparently have to be an omniscient god yourself.  It's ludicrous.

Pretty much.  They're not offering a question, or even a point for debate.  They've made up their minds ahead of time and are presenting you with a conclusion, and have already decided that nothing you say will make the slightest dent in their wall of ignorance.

[trdsf]

If you want access, you can have it. It's where we throw trolls to when we don't feel like giving them a full ban. They become restricted to posting in only that section.

Let one of us mods/admins know if you want Purgatory access and we'll make it happen

This is why I wouldn't make a good mod or admin.  I have a low threshhold for these types and then would spend unnecessary time wandering in there to toss them the occasional snarky comment and leave until the thrashing dies down again, just to repeat the process.

I may be an adolescent inside sometimes, but at least I know where he lurks and how to keep him entertained.  :D

[trdsf]

g2perks, just want you to know that we miss you out here in the world we can post anywhere. Really,



not.

Well, according to the activity list on the bottom of the main page, he's been up to something in the last hour.  I don't know -- and even less do I care.  If I had to hazard a guess, I should think that someone with access to Purgatory is playing the game 'poke the rabid badger with a stick'.  :)

[Unbeliever]

Well, hell, isn't that what badgers are for?










Badgers? we don't need no stinkin' badgers! 

[Baruch]

Who do I worship, I wonder.

If you are sufficient cynical, nothing and nobody.  But many worship themselves.

[Baruch]

Well, hell, isn't that what badgers are for?

Badgers? we don't need no stinkin' badgers! 

No, wolverines ;-)  Cute and cuddly.

[Mike Cl]

If you are sufficient cynical, nothing and nobody.  But many worship themselves.

Often wondered.  What does 'worship' entail?