Gun Control

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Safety training and training in general seem to fall under the category of the same shit that constitutes education in general.  Who is doing the training and who gets to decide who passes and who fails? Look at public education and the extremes of incompetence in schools where some people want children to be taught the bible from day one and promote it above all else and ignore most science..
So states will get to design a curriculum for gun safety and gun owner competence.. One state might do great and weed out the people who have absolutely no business whatsoever even looking at a gun much less having one in their hands while another state might require gun owners to memorize bible versus citing some vague morality bullshit.  I'm all for requiring training, but I'm also all for a national standard where instructors have to pass a much more rigorous curriculum and not let just any old yahoo become the local gun ownership authority.
Any reasonable person might say that the instructors would have to have passed the training requirements of the US Marine Corps or even more than and have zero history of belonging to some fucking gun nut organization that thinks even toddlers should have guns. I really don't have too many problems with gun ownership, but I do have a problem with gun sales and ownership being on parity with buying a gallon of milk.

[baronvonrort]

My argument against having assault rifles is that there's literally no point in having them legal.
It serves no logical purpose, and it would reduce the amount of gun deaths, even if it's a small amount.

FBI data shows rifles are the least common type of firearms used in homicides in the USA.

In Australia semi autos were the type of gun that caused the least deaths before they were banned in 1996.
1980-1995 data for Australia.
Accidental deaths = 283 with only 5 done with military semi auto
Suicides = 5,487 with only 52 done by military style semi auto
Homicides = 813 with only 27 done by military style semi auto
Total proportion of military style rifle deaths from 1980-1995 = 1.3%
In 1995 before our strict gun laws when semi auto rifles with silencers were allowed for self defence we had a homicide rate of 1.8 per 100K with only 0.3 per 100K firearm homicide rate, we had 67 firearm homicides in 1995 the year before our strict gun laws.
In 1980 our firearm homicide rate was 0.8 per 100K which declined to 0.3 per 100K by 1995
www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/productsbytitle/9C85BD1298C075EACA2568A900139342?OpenDocument

Assaults, sexual assaults and robberies increased after our strict gun laws in 1996
www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi_pdf/tandi359.pdf

Those who praise aussie gun laws must think a semi auto pistol is ok because they are allowed yet owning a semi auto rifle will turn you into a mass murdering terrorist.
You can buy a Ruger Charger on a pistol license yet the 10/22 is banned because semi auto rifles make you a potential terrorist.
The Remington 870 pump action shotgun is banned yet the 7600-7615 pump action rifles with 10 round magazines are allowed because they are not as deadly as a pump action shotgun.
My friend with 400 acres owns several bolt action 50 BMG with 10 round magazines yet he cannot have a 10/22 because semi auto rifles are more deadly.
BB and Airsoft guns were outlawed here in 1996, paintball only became legal again in Tasmania last year.
Australian gun laws are crap we can get 14 years jail for having technical drawings of guns on computers or data storage devices, New Zealand has better gun laws they allow semi auto rifles with silencers and unlike Australia they have had no mass shootings since 1996

As for the USA I don't recall school shootings being a problem 30 years ago, guns were probably easier to get back then so what has happened in the last 30 years.

I think ending the war on drugs will reduce gun crime, Colorado generated $70 million in pot taxes last year compared to $42 million in alcohol taxes, FBI data for 2014 works out with one pot arrest every 51 seconds in the USA.
With police focus shifted from drugs to crimes with victims surely society will be safer, the cost of enforcing pot laws compared to revenue from taxes should be seriously considered.

Drugs are a multi billion dollar industry with no legal recourse for deals gone bad so extreme violence is used for unpaid debts,if they had legal recourse for dud deals would they have to revert to violence for unpaid debts?
Great article-
www.cato.org/publications/commentary/end-drug-war-cut-gun-violence

[baronvonrort]

Mass shootings were never really a problem in Australia, the first Islamic terror attack in Australia was a mass shooting in 1915, our second worst mass shooting was done with a single shot bolt action .22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia

Copying Australian laws like Hilary suggested would be a huge mistake.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Baron, the 'drug war' for all intents and purposes handed the distribution of drugs from legitimate companies to the black market gangsters exactly what alcohol prohibition did in the 1920s here. The difference here is that certain politicians and their cronies figured out a way to make a profit by conning the public into believing that the government couldn't afford to operate prisons so they privatized the system to allow the criminals to not only sell drugs, but also make money by getting paid to lock up their competition.

[baronvonrort]

Milton Friedman on drug laws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKhukbe_VkE

In Australia we are not allowed to have any weapons for self defence, having guns for self defence was outlawed in 1996,check out Australian knife laws , pepper sprays,mace,batons,tasers are all prohibited here.
Our laws favour the strong and multiple attackers, people actually suggest Grandmothers should take up MMA for self defence here.

I don't have the solution to your problems, we have roadside random breath and drug testing here which I think might violate your 4A rights, would Americans tolerate 4A violations to reduce road toll.
Mothers against drunk driving didn't try to ban cars or alcohol or trample on 4A rights they used education to try to reduce road deaths, perhaps a similar approach is needed for gun crime.

[Baruch]

It was "mothers" like Carrie Nation, who got alcohol banned in the US for a few years.  Mostly church going "mothers" who were holier than thou.

That is the nicest name I can call these people ... "mothers".  But I don't think the distaff side of humanity has any lock on morality.

The purpose of the law is to separate people into two classes, and have one class self righteously beat up on the other half.  It is a variant of the 19th century Robber Baron rule, that we can hire half of the people to kill the other half.  And they still are.

[PopeyesPappy]

Federal HST 147 Grain 9mm at SG Ammo for $26.95 a box of 50.

If you prefer Gold Dots they have 124 grainers for $23.95 for 50.

And for you 22 folks they have 500 round bricks of SK Standard Plus 22 LR for $59.50. My 10/22 loves this stuff.

[stromboli]

The Germans are buying guns for self protection from refugees

As SHTF reported, the first reaction of many Europeans to the violent wave of Syrian refugees flooding their countries was to take arms for self-protection, and as a result gun sales soared, and where those weren’t available, sales for things like pepper spray also soared.

Back in September, everything was controversial, with headlines driving discussion about whether or not countries should accept largely-male populations of Muslim ‘refugees.’ Many people did not want them to be accepted, and as a result, many people have been extremely concerned for their safety.

But as the headlines are dying down, that sentiment is proving NOT to be a passing phase.

People are lining up for firearms, self-defense tools and training. And the underlying reason why? A crime wave of rapes, robberies and violent crimes by “black sheep” individuals in these migrant groups.

Draw your own conclusions.

[drunkenshoe]

BTW, if "sense" was "common" we wouldn't need traffic laws.

Yeah I'm glad that you weren't killed today. But according to your 'common sense' demonstrated in this post and many others, you are a result that this excuse of a civilisation can protect the stupid -besides the random chance- up to a level and proof that it can do much much better by strict gun control.

Stop comparing cars or any other tools, machines and devices to firearms. It's like talking with a jesus freak.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yeah I'm glad that you weren't killed today. But according to your 'common sense' demonstrated in this post and many others, you are a result that this excuse of a civilisation can protect the stupid -besides the random chance- up to a level and proof that it can do much much better by strict gun control.

Stop comparing cars or any other tools, machines and devices to firearms. It's like talking with a jesus freak.

I see why you chose "drunken" for your nick.

[Sal1981]

It's definitely the culture that's at fault here. We have pretty much free registration on shotguns around here, only requirement is that you're 18 years old to buy a shotgun, yet we have less gun-related deaths than Denmark.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's definitely the culture that's at fault here. We have pretty much free registration on shotguns around here, only requirement is that you're 18 years old to buy a shotgun, yet we have less gun-related deaths than Denmark.

The ardent gunners have taken the myth of the Old West and inflated it into a life style. Pity they don't understand that what they're emulating is a construct used to sell "dime novels" (yes, derogatory term) back when the shock of hearing that "the frontier is closed" was still fresh in people's minds.

[josephpalazzo]

...
Mothers against drunk driving didn't try to ban cars or alcohol or trample on 4A rights they used education to try to reduce road deaths, perhaps a similar approach is needed for gun crime.

In the US, using education... not a chance mate, that would be blasphemy...