Euthyphro's Dilemma

[Bobbotov]

The fact that theists are convinced that morality comes from God and not the humans who actually created it is patently absurd.

It's the same thing as the poster in another thread said about his wife's nephew.  She made sure that he got into a good college, and got enough grants and aid that he graduated almost debt-free.  Then he thanked Jesus for the education and the lack of debt.

They live in a world in which everything is due to Jesus and/or God.  (Except bad things - Jesus and God only do good things.)

Which relates to my feeling that religion causes people to deny their humanity. Religion is actually anti-human. A God or gods makes humans subservient. It marginalizes their abilities, diminishes their intellect, and makes them inherently sinners a priori. These are not positive affirmations of the human condition. When there is no God then we would ascribe gratefulness to those who have actually provided assistance which is where it belongs. Since in fact humans created the concept of God and its related religious dogma they have done themselves a great disservice and we have been paying the price for that and will continue to do so until this whole nonsense is dropped.

[Graceless]

Euthyphro's Dilemma was one of the things that ultimately convinced me to abandon Christianity, though I didn't find out that it was a common philosophical question until later.

I wondered how god could give me clinical depression even if I wasn't a "bad person". My pastor referred me to the book of Job as a meditation on human suffering. But when I closely examined the story of Job, I realized that god never provided a real explanation for why he allowed Job to suffer. At the end of the argument, god just tells Job that men have no grounds to question the actions of god because he is all-powerful and therefore gets to make the rules.

At that point I realized that biblical morality is ultimately unreasoning and based on fiat. A belated revelation, to be sure, but better late than never.

[LikelyToBreak]

Graceless's post reminded me of two things.

One the old argument that the King can do nothing wrong, because he is the King.

The other is, that reading the bible in context, not just picking and choosing passages, causes people to become atheists.  

I thought that Euthyphro's Dilemma merely shows that men justify bad actions towards others by using a God as scapegoat.  They merely state certain things are moral because God prescribes them.  When in fact they know all along they are making them up.  Mohammad is a good example of someone doing this.

[SGOS]

They live in a world in which everything is due to Jesus and/or God.  (Except bad things - Jesus and God only do good things.)

A guy I knew was testifying one time in an AA meeting about how God worked in his life.  He had bought a nice piece of property in the woods with a babbling creek, but he spent most of his wad on the property and couldn't afford to build the house.  One day, his brother offers to give him the $50,000, which he still needed to build the house.  He told everyone how grateful he was to God.  Everyone in the room sat there nodding in agreement.  I wanted to scream.

[Colanth]

I think if I were forced to listen to crap like that I'd want to do more than scream.  I'd want to help the jerk to discuss the matter with God in person.