Have you guys seen the newest robots?

[Baruch]

Well, extinction (as we are arranging it) does take some time.

Rome wasn't demolished in a day.

[Unbeliever]

No, but Nagasaki was.

[Baruch]

No, but Nagasaki was.

Sad ... but that rice wine factory had it coming ;-(

[Cavebear]

No, but Nagasaki was.

That hits home.  I had an Aunt Sachiko from there.  Not saying any blame though. 

[Unbeliever]

I read a biography of J. Robert Oppenheimer last year (American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J Robert Oppenheimer), that pretty much laid the blame squarely on Truman and his henchmen.

[Cavebear]

I read a biography of J. Robert Oppenheimer last year (American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J Robert Oppenheimer), that pretty much laid the blame squarely on Truman and his henchmen.

Well, we made one because the Nazis were trying to build one, and then they were defeated and the bombs were there, so we used them.

I don't think they truly understood how big a BOOM it would really make.  And after a long and bitter war, who wouldn't use the biggest bomb they had?

But "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

[Baruch]

I have to sympathize with Truman.  But like General Patton, I think we should have immediately invaded the Soviet Union, and then put Mao in Guantanamo.

[Unbeliever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-2mBaxdjrc

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well, we made one because the Nazis were trying to build one, and then they were defeated and the bombs were there, so we used them.

I don't think they truly understood how big a BOOM it would really make.  And after a long and bitter war, who wouldn't use the biggest bomb they had?

But "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

The people who survived the war, on both sides, should be very happy the bombs helped end it. Gen. Anami, Minister of War, was telling the Japanese people "One Hundred Million Dead For Japan!" As Japan had less than seventy million people at the time the Allies would have to make up the difference. First to go would have been the ~140,000 Allied POWs. Men, women, and children held in hellish camps like Santo Tomas in Manila. Anami had all those people ordered killed when "the first Allied boot touches Kyushu." He changed his mind when his aide came back from Nagasaki completely horrified. The resulting deadlock in the "Big Six" meant the Cabinet had to go before the Emperor and report they couldn't recommend a course for the country to utilize to continue the war. This was the first time in history this had happened and Showa used it to break the deadlock by calling for surrender. This ended the war six days for the Soviets were ready to invade Hokkaido, making a North/South split of Japan inevitable.

It's easy to say "Bombs BAD!" if you don't know what you're talking about.

[Mike Cl]

The people who survived the war, on both sides, should be very happy the bombs helped end it. Gen. Anami, Minister of War, was telling the Japanese people "One Hundred Million Dead For Japan!" As Japan had less than seventy million people at the time the Allies would have to make up the difference. First to go would have been the ~140,000 Allied POWs. Men, women, and children held in hellish camps like Santo Tomas in Manila. Anami had all those people ordered killed when "the first Allied boot touches Kyushu." He changed his mind when his aide came back from Nagasaki completely horrified. The resulting deadlock in the "Big Six" meant the Cabinet had to go before the Emperor and report they couldn't recommend a course for the country to utilize to continue the war. This was the first time in history this had happened and Showa used it to break the deadlock by calling for surrender. This ended the war six days for the Soviets were ready to invade Hokkaido, making a North/South split of Japan inevitable.

It's easy to say "Bombs BAD!" if you don't know what you're talking about.

I do think the bombs were life savers for both sides.  another irony of war.

[trdsf]

The people who survived the war, on both sides, should be very happy the bombs helped end it. Gen. Anami, Minister of War, was telling the Japanese people "One Hundred Million Dead For Japan!" As Japan had less than seventy million people at the time the Allies would have to make up the difference. First to go would have been the ~140,000 Allied POWs. Men, women, and children held in hellish camps like Santo Tomas in Manila. Anami had all those people ordered killed when "the first Allied boot touches Kyushu." He changed his mind when his aide came back from Nagasaki completely horrified. The resulting deadlock in the "Big Six" meant the Cabinet had to go before the Emperor and report they couldn't recommend a course for the country to utilize to continue the war. This was the first time in history this had happened and Showa used it to break the deadlock by calling for surrender. This ended the war six days for the Soviets were ready to invade Hokkaido, making a North/South split of Japan inevitable.

It's easy to say "Bombs BAD!" if you don't know what you're talking about.

You're talking about two different situations.  In 1945, there were three bombs in the world total: the Trinity device, and the two used on Japan.  That's a vastly different situationâ€"that was a full global nuclear exchange.

Today, there are nearly 15,000 warheads, and even though about 11,000 of those are stockpiled and 5,300 of those are currently scheduled to be dismantled, a full nuclear exchange of 4,000 devicesâ€"almost all of which are vastly more powerful than the relatively small bombs used in 1945â€"is a completely different thing.

Personally, I'm less concerned about the bombs per se than I am about the stability and sanity of the person authorized to order their use.  We've been steadily reducing our stockpiles, and we'll probably never achieve complete nuclear disarmament, but the situation is better than it was at the peak(s) of the Cold War.  I won't go quite so far as to say that a few thousand bombs are good, but I have no difficulty in saying that tens of thousands of them are bad.

[Cavebear]

You're talking about two different situations.  In 1945, there were three bombs in the world total: the Trinity device, and the two used on Japan.  That's a vastly different situationâ€"that was a full global nuclear exchange.

Today, there are nearly 15,000 warheads, and even though about 11,000 of those are stockpiled and 5,300 of those are currently scheduled to be dismantled, a full nuclear exchange of 4,000 devicesâ€"almost all of which are vastly more powerful than the relatively small bombs used in 1945â€"is a completely different thing.

Personally, I'm less concerned about the bombs per se than I am about the stability and sanity of the person authorized to order their use.  We've been steadily reducing our stockpiles, and we'll probably never achieve complete nuclear disarmament, but the situation is better than it was at the peak(s) of the Cold War.  I won't go quite so far as to say that a few thousand bombs are good, but I have no difficulty in saying that tens of thousands of them are bad.

I understand your point.  And I accept the numbers and logic.  But in WWII, it wasn't an "EXCHANGE" of nuclear weapons.  It was all one-sided.

[trdsf]

I understand your point.  And I accept the numbers and logic.  But in WWII, it wasn't an "EXCHANGE" of nuclear weapons.  It was all one-sided.

True.  I sloppily used the usual terminology, and it's not really appropriate to the way the devices were used in 1945.

[Cavebear]

True.  I sloppily used the usual terminology, and it's not really appropriate to the way the devices were used in 1945.

I've always thought it was a hard decision.  And they didn't quite realize then what they were unleashing.  But even had they understood, would the decision have been different.  Could it have been?

[Baruch]

I've always thought it was a hard decision.  And they didn't quite realize then what they were unleashing.  But even had they understood, would the decision have been different.  Could it have been?

Yes, we could have had Man In A High Castle ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzz_6dmv03I

Rs and Ds have no idea what real Nazis and real Stalinists are like.  They are larping.