Is Pedophilia a Choice?

[TomFoolery]

Justice is very much about vengeance by the hoi poloi against anyone who is non-conformist.  Justice is a worthless abstract concept.

I disagree. Vengeance is about trying to fix the past, but justice implies trying to fix the future.

Rather than debate the gray area about about 16 and 17 year olds and maturity level and biology and social norms, I'll just go out on a limb and refer to the 13 and under crowd in my definition of pedophilia.

Is pedophilia a choice? No, but that shouldn't mean it gets confused with being appropriate. That also shouldn't mean that other things that aren't a choice such as homosexuality get labelled "icky" either.

[marom1963]

I can go for that.

[Baruch]

Chattel slavery as we practiced it in the US was certainly wrong. However, "slavery" as it was practiced in Ancient Rome was not at all like the slavery that we practiced here. In fact, it more resembled modern employment than chattel slavery. No, the slaves could not just leave when they wanted, but they had rights that had to be scrupulously cared for, including the possession of their wages. They also had guilds to which they could belong that invested their earnings to help them purchase their freedom.Secretary, librarian, teacher, chef, accountant, physician, dancer, artist, government bureaucrat - just some of the occupations that were entirely servile in nature. Only soldiers and lawyers had to be free men. (By the by, it was the soldiers who built Rome's roads, not slaves.)
As for the ages of consent, when I said that it was moved about like the rope at a bank, I meant nowadays, not the past. All over the World, it varies.
As for the past, w/a much shorter life span, getting married at age 12 was not unreasonable. As life-span has increased, the span of childhood has telescoped to an almost ridiculous length. And we have invented something that did not exist in the past: adolescence. To a large extent, this has to do w/delaying the entry of even more young men and women into the work force. The lack of experience that goes w/being young was, in the past, treated for what it was - lack of experience, not a special disease that afflicts the young.

Yes, there are different cultures.  African-American slavery was a special creature designed for its time and place.  There are many kinds of approved and disapproved slavery however ... wage and debt slavery, particularly debt slavery ... is on the rise, not decline.  Self congratulations are not merited.  There were times when even American colonial slavery was funny ...

There once was a Scottish girl who was shipped off to the American colonies, because of her bad situation at home, that is how we used to dispose of the undesirable before we had Australia and Canada.  She knew that the American South was much hotter than Scotland.  As it happened, when she first disembarked, she caught her first sight of Black folk working in the port.  These happened to have been "acculturated" by fellow Scotts, so they talked like her, not like the English.  She was in shock at first, thinking that these were Scots who had gotten too baked in the hot sun (a belief about Africans dating back to ancient times), and was concerned her skin and hair would darken too ;-)

Roman slavery wasn't funny however, just ask Spartacus.

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Forget the age of consent argument.  I know it's very redundant to say this in any thread about the subject, but the line for pedophilia is puberty.  Having had the misfortune to spend some quality time with a pedo back when I was a child, I find it very offensive when people confuse "undger-age" and "prepubescent."

[marom1963]

Forget the age of consent argument.  I know it's very redundant to say this in any thread about the subject, but the line for pedophilia is puberty.  Having had the misfortune to spend some quality time with a pedo back when I was a child, I find it very offensive when people confuse "undger-age" and "prepubescent."

No, that's not a line that should be crossed. An 18 year-old w/a 16 year-old, I can turn a blind eye. A 30 year-old w/the same 16 year-old, and I'm calling the cops. That's the type of judicial discretion that I'm talking about. I'm not for putting a 14 year-old in prison b/c he had sex w/another 14 year-old. But gung-ho prosecutors have been known to try such cases. Megan's Law needs some re-tooling. I personally know a boy - 19 years-old - who has to register as a sex offender b/c he took a leak in an alley and got charged w/indecent exposure - a dark alley, in the middle of the night, the only one who saw him was the cop who followed him up the alley. That's ridiculous. A stiff fine and some community service would have been enough - not a life-time of being a registered sex offender for taking a leak.

[Hijiri Byakuren (OP)]

No, that's not a line that should be crossed. An 18 year-old w/a 16 year-old, I can turn a blind eye. A 30 year-old w/the same 16 year-old, and I'm calling the cops. That's the type of judicial discretion that I'm talking about. I'm not for putting a 14 year-old in prison b/c he had sex w/another 14 year-old. But gung-ho prosecutors have been known to try such cases. Megan's Law needs some re-tooling. I personally know a boy - 19 years-old - who has to register as a sex offender b/c he took a leak in an alley and got charged w/indecent exposure - a dark alley, in the middle of the night, the only one who saw him was the cop who followed him up the alley. That's ridiculous. A stiff fine and some community service would have been enough - not a life-time of being a registered sex offender for taking a leak.

No, he's correct. After puberty, you're crossing into ephebophile territory. This thread is about pedophilia, not ephebophilia.

[aitm]

there is something wrong with a 60 year old man ogling a teenage girl. On the same token it's equally sick if a woman does it to a teenage boy. What the hell do you see in a teenage boy any way? Certainly not security. And 60 year old man? Yes I'm sure you and the teenage girl will have lots to relate on. .

As much as we scream, it seems the world, in reality, does not agree. In public, they agree, but privately….ah..the real world is far more grey than black and white.

[marom1963]

As much as we scream, it seems the world, in reality, does not agree. In public, they agree, but privately….ah..the real world is far more grey than black and white.

What in public? For millenniums, it has been common to allow old men to marry young girls simply because old men can still father children, whereas old women cannot get pregnant. Wealthy old men have always had easy access to young girls. This does not mean that old women do not look at young men - but they have not had access to them, unless they were wealthy - and very discrete, simply b/c it has not been socially acceptable for them to have young lovers. W/the changing status of women, this may change.

[FaithIsFilth]

• If pedophilia is a choice, why do people choose to do it?

I don't think it's a choice, but people rape or molest kids for the same reason they rape or molest adults. For sexual pleasure or for a feeling of power over that person.

Someone earlier in the thread said they couldn't understand why we would be attracted to a prepubescent body. To that I would say, don't bother trying to understand it. It's like a straight guy looking at a naked guy with his ass spread and trying to understand why that is attractive to gay guys. If we aren't gay, we aren't supposed to understand that attraction. Attraction just is. Why am I attracted to what I'm attracted to? Because I'm attracted to it. That's the only answer I can really give.

• Should pedophilia be considered a mental illness?

If the person suffers mental distress from their pedophilia, or has urges to hurt children, then yes, that is mental illness.

• Is pedophilia a sexual orientation? If not, why should it be distinguished from sexual orientation?

Sure. I don't see why not. Some experts are starting to call it a sexual orientation. Calling it an orientation is not in any way agreeing that it's ok to have sex with or molest kids, and it's not disagreeing with the point that children can not give consent. Homosexuality means same sex attraction. Heterosexuality means opposite sex attraction... We are talking about attraction here, not necessarily the physical act of sex. Pedophilia means attraction to pre-pubescents. Some don't like calling it an orientation though, because they think that is making the statement that pedophilia is ok and normal, and that it should just be accepted like any other orientation is accepted, and that people are going to think pedophiles don't need help or something if it's just accepted as normal.

• What sort of carrot/stick approach would be best to prevent pedophiles from crossing into criminal territory? (Especially since current punishments don't seem to discourage a fair number of them.)

I don't know. Making it easier for pedophiles who need help to go get the help would be a good start. Follow in the footsteps of other countries who have had success in this area.

[Jannabear]

I know a convicted pedophile ... an old man attracted to teenage girls.  I can certainly relate to the feeling, but I draw the line at soliciting or touching.  He is at least guilty of soliciting on-line.  Not a smart move at all, since it was a police sting.

Pedophilia is the sexual attraction to prepubescent children, calling someone attracted to teens a pedophile is silly.

[stromboli]

Have had situations where girls (in Scotland) that were quite mature and also quite happy to meet sailors, because marrying a person from the U.S. at the time was a way out of their bad situation. One girl was 14, another 16. You'd never know from their appearance.

But that is something quite different. Acting to take advantage of a prepubescent child deliberately is inexcusable, period. I've known Mormon elders who were married and had a "polygamy" moment being attracted to underage girls. I knew a 30+ year old man who married a girl the second she turned 18. He was a Seminary teacher and she was one of his students. totally legal and happily allowed by the parents, but he was grooming her as a student. That stinks. And it was never condemned either by the community or the church.

[doorknob]

I'm sorry but marrying girls because they were in a horrible situation (oh yes you're her hero )and that in no way is taking advantage of some one in a less fortunate situation then your self! You can help people with out marrying them and then further obligating them to your self. That's dishonest and discussing!

any one can scream and disagree but old men with teenage girl is a predator taking advantage of some one too young and stupid to defend them self. I was one of those teenage girls who was constantly attacked by OLD men. I did not solicit this! Eventually I learned how to be loud and ignorant and even that doesn't deter them. My poor sister was practically raped by a customer in a store where she worked. Her boss straight up said as long as she wasn't raped he didn't care! I even would say some one in their 20's any one older than 21 should not be messing with teenage girls. It's pretty likely that alcohol will be involved in those situations ( I know that's why I looked for men over 21 and no other reason than that). 

It's bad news no matter how you slice it! I don't give two shit's who married who at what age in the past! That was the past when we did many bad and ignorant things. We have grown as a society and know better now! It disheartens me to see so many men support teenage to adult relationships and I"m not talk a few years apart. I'm talking a grown man who knows better. It's predatory and it sickens me! If you can't tell predator behavior from normal behavior then something is wrong with you, you might want to check your self!

What is so wrong with dating some one your own age or ,at least close to it, any how? People on this forum are acting like it's their god given right to target a teenager! Other than using you for money or alcohol or drugs there isn't a teen age girl who wants a 30 + some year old man! That's not true love that's just fucked up! And the fact that so many people are trying to justify this type of behavior scares the shit out of me! No wonder I was sexually harassed and practically raped in my teenage years! Too many people are condoning this sort of behavior! Thanks for supporting predators!

BTW I didn't mean you stromboli I think you nailed it on the head when you said he was grooming her.

[Jannabear]

I'm sorry but marrying girls because they were in a horrible situation (oh yes you're her hero )and that in no way is taking advantage of some one in a less fortunate situation then your self! You can help people with out marrying them and then further obligating them to your self. That's dishonest and discussing!

any one can scream and disagree but old men with teenage girl is a predator taking advantage of some one too young and stupid to defend them self. I was one of those teenage girls who was constantly attacked by OLD men. I did not solicit this! Eventually I learned how to be loud and ignorant and even that doesn't deter them. My poor sister was practically raped by a customer in a store where she worked. Her boss straight up said as long as she wasn't raped he didn't care! I even would say some one in their 20's any one older than 21 should not be messing with teenage girls. It's pretty likely that alcohol will be involved in those situations ( I know that's why I looked for men over 21 and no other reason than that). 

It's bad news no matter how you slice it! I don't give two shit's who married who at what age in the past! That was the past when we did many bad and ignorant things. We have grown as a society and know better now! It disheartens me to see so many men support teenage to adult relationships and I"m not talk a few years apart. I'm talking a grown man who knows better. It's predatory and it sickens me! If you can't tell predator behavior from normal behavior then something is wrong with you, you might want to check your self!

What is so wrong with dating some one your own age or ,at least close to it, any how? People on this forum are acting like it's their god given right to target a teenager! Other than using you for money or alcohol or drugs there isn't a teen age girl who wants a 30 + some year old man! That's not true love that's just fucked up! And the fact that so many people are trying to justify this type of behavior scares the shit out of me! No wonder I was sexually harassed and practically raped in my teenage years! Too many people are condoning this sort of behavior! Thanks for supporting predators!

BTW I didn't mean you stromboli I think you nailed it on the head when you said he was grooming her.

I have to disagree with you.
Are many teenagers not able to handle that level of commitment to another person, yes, but youre making a generalization, you ignore the fact that SOME, are.
Not every teenager is a braindead retard as youd try to portray them.

[Hijiri Byakuren (OP)]

I have to disagree with you.
Are many teenagers not able to handle that level of commitment to another person, yes, but youre making a generalization, you ignore the fact that SOME, are.
Not every teenager is a braindead retard as youd try to portray them.

No, as a former teenager myself I can confirm that every teenager is as braindead as she portrays them.

[doorknob]

I have to disagree with you.
Are many teenagers not able to handle that level of commitment to another person, yes, but youre making a generalization, you ignore the fact that SOME, are.
Not every teenager is a braindead retard as youd try to portray them.

I never said they were retarded or brain dead. Simply they lack experience. How do you expect a 16 year old girl to handle a 30 year old? There is some wisdom that only comes with age. Also an adult is a person in power a teenager is not. They still can not live on their own or support them selves. They don't have the same level of responsibility yet. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

And also commitment has little to do with it. Adults aren't exactly shining examples of commitment any way. How many people get divorced?