Is Infant Circumcision Immoral?

[gentle_dissident]

My circumcised unit is very sensitive. It literally just takes a breeze. I spent an abnormal amount of time, starting around 4, thinking of sexuality. I wonder if it's part of the brew that made my mind so sexual that it was difficult to study and learn.

I don't remember being upset about being snipped. However, I cannot rule out its role in neurosis.

[Baruch]

Luckily for me, I was a second son.

Ah my boy, the oldest son inherits, the second son gets to enter the priesthood ;-)

[Bluewind (OP)]

Had a discussion with a Urologist about it about 6 years ago. He said it was an unnecessary operation and in an adult, quite painful. He had never personally seen a health reason to perform one.

The fact that it's quite painful when done to someone who can vocalize how it feels to them really proves my point.

If I understood what I read correctly on the subject, the first recorded instance of it was in Egypt and it was preformed as a right of passage for Egyptian boys who were transitioning into manhood. Perhaps the freed Jewish slaves absorbed the practice into their own culture and eventually lowered the age?

[stromboli]

The fact that it's quite painful when done to someone who can vocalize how it feels to them really proves my point.

If I understood what I read correctly on the subject, the first recorded instance of it was in Egypt and it was preformed as a right of passage for Egyptian boys who were transitioning into manhood. Perhaps the freed Jewish slaves absorbed the practice into their own culture and eventually lowered the age?

Good point. I can state with some confidence that given the option of having themselves circumsised as an adult, the numbers would be far lower. The Urologist pointed out to me that the circumcision isn't the issue so much as the pain involved afterward in the healing process. Given that men are sensitive about undue pain in that area, knowing the whole story would be less likely to have it done. You would have to have a pretty strong motive to go through that.

[RCnal]

Well, I'm very very happy with my no hassle and smooth shaft. However, looking at the actual issue, I'm not sure I'm willing to try to make a call to tell people this is good or not. I will say, I don't know a single guy who complains they got snipped.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ah my boy, the oldest son inherits, the second son gets to enter the priesthood ;-)

I got to keep my foreskin.

[marom1963]

As someone who lives in the US, circumcision is the norm and normally done before a male can give consent. It's often sighted as a good thing because many believe that the circumcised are cleaner than those who are not and by doing it to them when they are so young they won't remember the pain and will heal faster. The question is is it moral to alter someone's body without their consent in a way that is not a medical emergency and if not, why is it such a universally excepted practice here to the point that many parents must specifically tell doctors NOT to do it (and even then it could be done anyway)? Is there a positive side to circumcision without consent or a negative side to leaving it untouched? Are motivations religiously driven or driven by society? Should it be allowed as an option for anyone, only those of specific faiths which require it, or not at all?

Originally I was on the side saying it should be done. Then, I talked to men of both groups (friends, online friends, the 2 men I've dated, and even my dad!) and found that it had a negative impact on them. The older ones found that they were more likely to have bedroom difficulties if they had been circumcised than those who hadn't. They were less sensitive in general. I even spoke to a man who was angry at his parents for allowing it had happened to him without his consent and hoped he would one day be able to have it replaced in a sense. Some men said it was probably cleaner and women liked how it looked because the natural ones looked kinda weird (societal norms I guess), but the negative outweighed the positive especially for the older ones. The only person I talked to who believed it should be mandatory was a female nurse who said in the nursing home environment the circumcised ones were easier and you didn't have to worry about forgetting to roll it back in place and cut off circulation to it. I will admit that all I've said is anecdotal, but it bothers me as a woman who wants to have kids and I would love to hear valid points from both sides.

I was circumcised, when I was born. I have never given it a thought. I know that my brother-in-law had to be circumcised as an adult because he kept getting infections underneath his foreskin that were endangering the head of his penis and spreading to his bladder. So, there he was, a man in his mid-thirties, having to undergo circumcision.  I know another man who had to be circumcised as an adult because his foreskin had lost its elasticity and had become so painful upon erection that he could not have sex any more. So, removal of the foreskin is not necessarily an evil thing ... I've never missed it. In fact, I never knew that I had had one until I was told. I have no scar. Whoever did my surgery did a beautiful job of it ... Yes, I've heard of the botch jobs. Shame that, but that's the same for any procedure - not the procedure's fault, but the surgeon's fault. Male circumcision is not the same evil thing that female circumcision is - it's not the removal of the very organ of sexual pleasure. Would my penis have been more sensitive to the rubbing of sexual encounter? I don't know. Do I care? No. Sex takes place in the mind, really - otherwise, it's really just rubbing body parts together.

[RCnal]

I was circumcised, when I was born. I have never given it a thought. I know that my brother-in-law had to be circumcised as an adult because he kept getting infections underneath his foreskin that were endangering the head of his penis and spreading to his bladder. So, there he was, a man in his mid-thirties, having to undergo circumcision.  I know another man who had to be circumcised as an adult because his foreskin had lost its elasticity and had become so painful upon erection that he could not have sex any more. So, removal of the foreskin is not necessarily an evil thing ... I've never missed it. In fact, I never knew that I had had one until I was told. I have no scar. Whoever did my surgery did a beautiful job of it ... Yes, I've heard of the botch jobs. Shame that, but that's the same for any procedure - not the procedure's fault, but the surgeon's fault. Male circumcision is not the same evil thing that female circumcision is - it's not the removal of the very organ of sexual pleasure. Would my penis have been more sensitive to the rubbing of sexual encounter? I don't know. Do I care? No. Sex takes place in the mind, really - otherwise, it's really just rubbing body parts together.

Such a great view point. Wow!

[marom1963]

The fact that it's quite painful when done to someone who can vocalize how it feels to them really proves my point.

If I understood what I read correctly on the subject, the first recorded instance of it was in Egypt and it was preformed as a right of passage for Egyptian boys who were transitioning into manhood. Perhaps the freed Jewish slaves absorbed the practice into their own culture and eventually lowered the age?

I know two adult men who have had to undergo circumcision. It's not fun. In fact, it was a miserable ordeal. They had to wear padding for weeks and weeks. They did not like talking about it, but even bathing was an ordeal - just raw, raw, raw - oozing raw. But it had to be done in both cases. In one case, it was due to constant infections underneath the foreskin; in the other case, it was due to a loss of elasticity in the foreskin, so that it would literally tear upon erection and cause agony ... I'm glad that my parents simply had me "cut" when I was born. I may have been miserable in my diapers for a few weeks, but I do not remember it at all.

[aitm]

Frankly an "un" looks like a worm and who wants that comparison?  Case closed.

[Baruch]

African boys have it done, during the early teen right of passage.  The men take the boys out in the bush to teach them about manhood, and cut them with a dull pair of primitive scissors.  If you don't do it, you are ostracized from the tribe for being a coward.

[PickelledEggs]

Frankly an "un" looks like a worm and who wants that comparison?  Case closed.

I do have to say, I do like the fact that my penis looks like it's wearing a little WWII helmet.

[Bluewind (OP)]

Frankly an "un" looks like a worm and who wants that comparison?  Case closed.

To me, they look more like Mr. Snuffleupagus (the modern version) when soft. When hard, they look basically the same. As someone who was born in a place where circumcision is the norm, uncut penises look odd to you and most men/women born in the same environment. Go to a county where it's rare, and you are the odd one or the novelty with the names attached.

@marom1963
Why exactly was he getting infections I wonder? Did his wife have an asymptomatic case of Bacterial Vaginosis or Yeast Infection (yes, men can get them)? Was he not taught proper care and let bacteria grow? Was he simply susceptible? In any case, there are over the counter treatments and prescriptions just like when my pipes are on the fritz. You just have to know what to look for.

As far as your friend is concerned, his condition is quite rare. If it wasn't, the male population of Australia and the majority of Europe would be in a hell of a shape!

[marom1963]

To me, they look more like Mr. Snuffleupagus (the modern version) when soft. When hard, they look basically the same. As someone who was born in a place where circumcision is the norm, uncut penises look odd to you and most men/women born in the same environment. Go to a county where it's rare, and you are the odd one or the novelty with the names attached.

@marom1963
Why exactly was he getting infections I wonder? Did his wife have an asymptomatic case of Bacterial Vaginosis or Yeast Infection (yes, men can get them)? Was he not taught proper care and let bacteria grow? Was he simply susceptible? In any case, there are over the counter treatments and prescriptions just like when my pipes are on the fritz. You just have to know what to look for.

As far as your friend is concerned, his condition is quite rare. If it wasn't, the male population of Australia and the majority of Europe would be in a hell of a shape!

Oh, I'm sure that the trouble w/the foreskin elasticity is quite rare. As for my brother-in-law, it was some sort of yeast infection, but my sister did not have it, didn't even catch it from him. And, yes, he'd always been very good about his hygiene ... I wasn't implying that men in general need to be circumcised as a matter of hygiene, no. Most men in the world are not circumcised. Even so, I don't see it as nearly the problem that female circumcision is. I don't think that male circumcision does nearly the harm.

[Mr.Obvious]

Just going to leave this here.