Is Infant Circumcision Immoral?

[Bluewind (OP)]

As someone who lives in the US, circumcision is the norm and normally done before a male can give consent. It's often sighted as a good thing because many believe that the circumcised are cleaner than those who are not and by doing it to them when they are so young they won't remember the pain and will heal faster. The question is is it moral to alter someone's body without their consent in a way that is not a medical emergency and if not, why is it such a universally excepted practice here to the point that many parents must specifically tell doctors NOT to do it (and even then it could be done anyway)? Is there a positive side to circumcision without consent or a negative side to leaving it untouched? Are motivations religiously driven or driven by society? Should it be allowed as an option for anyone, only those of specific faiths which require it, or not at all?

Originally I was on the side saying it should be done. Then, I talked to men of both groups (friends, online friends, the 2 men I've dated, and even my dad!) and found that it had a negative impact on them. The older ones found that they were more likely to have bedroom difficulties if they had been circumcised than those who hadn't. They were less sensitive in general. I even spoke to a man who was angry at his parents for allowing it had happened to him without his consent and hoped he would one day be able to have it replaced in a sense. Some men said it was probably cleaner and women liked how it looked because the natural ones looked kinda weird (societal norms I guess), but the negative outweighed the positive especially for the older ones. The only person I talked to who believed it should be mandatory was a female nurse who said in the nursing home environment the circumcised ones were easier and you didn't have to worry about forgetting to roll it back in place and cut off circulation to it. I will admit that all I've said is anecdotal, but it bothers me as a woman who wants to have kids and I would love to hear valid points from both sides.

[Mermaid]

I don't approve of it, I think it's an unethical medical practice. Immoral? Never thought about it as immoral, but maybe, yeah.

[Mermaid]

Incidentally, I am lucky enough to have a friend who was circumcised as an adult, and I was able to ask him about his experience with it on both sides of the fence. He did it for religious reasons, so he is obviously quite in favor of it. He says the sexual response is different but equal.

I have read a few publications that confirm that some sexually transmitted infections are transmitted more easily by men who are not circumcised, and that some intact men have issues with microbial balanitis. I don't really agree that this justifies the routine circumcision of babies though.

[Nonsensei]

Theres no hygiene advantage that cannot be achieved by simply washing yourself regularly.

The only other advantage is that, at least in America, women are so used to seeing a circumcised penis that you might run into those who simply find the foreskin "gross". Could become an issue for your son if the girl he likes wont go near him because he isn't circumcised. Then again if shes that hung up on it maybe shes not the right girl.

In my experience the majority of women don't seem to give a shit as long as you are keeping it clean.

Beyond those two points theres really no other advantage I can think of. Someone once said to me that it reduces instances of penile cancer. I think that kind of cancer is already pretty unusual, but I also have a problem with the logic of cutting off a piece of the body to keep from developing a cancer associated with it. Shall we do pre-emptive hysterectomies too? Beat breast cancer today with mandatory hysterectomies!

Yeah not so much.

[Mermaid]

Theres no hygiene advantage that cannot be achieved by simply washing yourself regularly.

The only other advantage is that, at least in America, women are so used to seeing a circumcised penis that you might run into those who simply find the foreskin "gross". Could become an issue for your son if the girl he likes wont go near him because he isn't circumcised. Then again if shes that hung up on it maybe shes not the right girl.

In my experience the majority of women don't seem to give a shit as long as you are keeping it clean.

Beyond those two points theres really no other advantage I can think of. Someone once said to me that it reduces instances of penile cancer. I think that kind of cancer is already pretty unusual, but I also have a problem with the logic of cutting off a piece of the body to keep from developing a cancer associated with it. Shall we do pre-emptive hysterectomies too? Beat breast cancer today with mandatory hysterectomies!

Yeah not so much.

I have heard a lot of women say this. It makes me sad. The most common reason I hear for doing it is that they want their kid's penis to look like Dad's. I am a woman, so I don't know a lot about the psychology of that. How important is that to boys?

[Nonsensei]

I have heard a lot of women say this. It makes me sad. The most common reason I hear for doing it is that they want their kid's penis to look like Dad's. I am a woman, so I don't know a lot about the psychology of that. How important is that to boys?

Sorry, not sure what you're referring to. How important is what to boys?

[Mermaid]

Sorry, not sure what you're referring to. How important is what to boys?

Their penis being the same as Dad's. The men in my family have had their sons circumcised for that reason, so their boys don't feel weird because their penis is not the same.

[Nonsensei]

Their penis being the same as Dad's. The men in my family have had their sons circumcised for that reason, so their boys don't feel weird because their penis is not the same.

Oh heh. Honestly that strikes me as super weird. I mean what would you think if I told you that I wanted my daughter's pussy to be just like her moms? Wouldn't you be calling the police or something?

I dont think boys care at all if their penis is like their dad's. Especially not if it means having a piece of themselves cut off to achieve the effect.

[Mermaid]

Oh heh. Honestly that strikes me as super weird. I mean what would you think if I told you that I wanted my daughter's pussy to be just like her moms? Wouldn't you be calling the police or something?

I dont think boys care at all if their penis is like their dad's. Especially not if it means having a piece of themselves cut off to achieve the effect.

Well that's what I thought! But I don't know all the secrets about growing up a boy, so what do I know.

[AkiraTheFighter]

I think it is unfair to do it before they have a say on weather or not they want it. Would I put it up there as being immoral? Yes. And while I don't speak for everyone I myself have an Uncircumcised penis. And I have yet to get an infection from it. Granted my mom thought me from small to always wash it when I bathe, so that might have a part to play in it. BTW with all the guys I've dated, all of them found it sexy and was jelly of it actually. I think it's cuz I can dock. XD

My dad on the other hand had a different story about his. He was uncircumcised until he was around 40 years of age. Somehow he teared it and never went to a doctor to see about it, so it got infected and this resulted in him having to get it circumcised. Whats worse is that he was diabetic so not seeing about it was a bad move on his part. So he was lucky.

[Nonsensei]

Well that's what I thought! But I don't know all the secrets about growing up a boy, so what do I know.

There aren't a whole lot of secrets to growing up as a boy. We like food and games. Eventually we like girls. End of story.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

As with anything else that isn't medically necessary, it should only be done with the consent of the patient. If the patient cannot consent, then you don't do it. A lot of parents in America don't seem to understand this concept, sadly. (Although that may explain the rampant anti-abortion sentiment.)

[aitm]

Meh, I really have a hard time seeing the uproar one way or another. I was, but as the majority it never bothered me. I have seen a couple that were not and meh… Sometimes I think that some make a lot of noise over something that is really not a lot of noise. But that is me. I have larger things to be pissy about and yes, I would have had my son done if I had one, and yes I would have not opposed a grandson from having it done, but I would not argue over it, at all. If I was asked, "this is what I think"…if I was not asked, I would not offer.  I would not spend the effort to argue about it…that is how much I care.

[Nonsensei]

I think you'll find that men are divided on this issue according to whether or not they themselves are circumcised. No man wants to think of their own penis as being inferior.

[Bluewind (OP)]

I have to say, I'm really enjoying this conversation. Everyone is bring up some great relative points. I love how Nonsense i put it saying that men are divided depending on how they themselves look. I really wish that the procedure had a minimum age it could be preformed unless it was done for a medically necessary reason or (maybe) if a parent was Jewish or one of the religions that REQUIRE it (not encourage or are neutral about). Otherwise, they can wait until the age of consent (18 or older) and if they want it done, they can get it done and if not, they get to stay intact. After all, you can't uncut a foreskin. ;)