Christopher Hitchens: Resisting Islam

[Cocoa Beware]

Some interesting and at times strikingly prophetic commentary by the man many of us miss a great deal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQMNNjzo2s4

[reasonist]

Thank you for posting that. Yes, many free thinkers miss Hitch. He was a brave and very smart man indeed. He predicted the caliphate 10 years ago and we can see today how his prediction came true. Too bad that the good ones go early, he had so much more to contribute!

[Baruch]

Thank you for posting that. Yes, many free thinkers miss Hitch. He was a brave and very smart man indeed. He predicted the caliphate 10 years ago and we can see today how his prediction came true. Too bad that the good ones go early, he had so much more to contribute!

Prediction?  Or CIA plot ... MI6 plot ... Turkish plot ... Saudi plot ... Omani plot ... Iraqi plot ... KGB plot.  When the game is afoot ... you don't have to ask Sherlock Holmes, if Dr Moriarty is involved ;-)

There was unhappiness with the last Caliphate ... under the Ottoman Empire.  That was part of what Lawrence was playing on.  And there were attempts in the Afghan/Pakistan area to start a new Caliphate in the 1920s, but the British Empire successfully suppressed it.  The Muhammad Omar actions in the 1990s were a revival of that ... Muhammad Omar symbolically declared himself to be the Mahdi in Herat, because he showed to his followers he had the literal shirt of Muhammad (sacred relic).  Osama Bin Laden was acting as his sultan (army chief).  So prediction is very good, if it is done in hindsight.  I am sure Hitchens was aware of that (maybe as an MI6 spokesperson?).

[drunkenshoe]

There is a crucial thing Hitchens -like the others like him- misses here about 'covering' women in Islam. And it is a very good example of his general vision; a common western vision to be exact- which brought us to this point in the first place. These problems do not occur by themselves just like that or fall down from the skies, just because of a religion. This goes for Christianity in the US too.

When you try to change these things -headscarf- like they have tried in Turkey for example, you immediately politicise them, esp. solid things like headscarf and all forms of religious or cultural dressing codes and make it a symbol of a certain class. You victimise people by imposing your own life style, because social standings, identity, class...they are all attached to these codes.

This is what happened in Turkey. They banned headscarf in schools and universities, state buildings for female workers...you name it and they made it a solid political symbol of their oppression. Religions class has been defined as the lowest ince the declaration of the republic. (Ironically, what's more Turkey has been loudly criticised out loud for this before 9/11 for decades and this has always been the headlines about the country for a long time.

Fuck anyone's side, it IS oppression, I don't care how much people hate the other or adores their own culture. These policies were applied in the name of WESTERNISATION. And they didn't work. Why would they? Secularisation is NOT equal to Westernisation, infact Westernisation has nothing to do with secularisation or progress.

It was about creating societies to sell products from life style to food, from cars to social culture. It didn't work and we are paying the price. Nobody even thought about it what would happen in time with globalisation and and demographics. It was about the sale.

Looking back now it is actually so stupid to think that it would work, the whole expectation is actually the same with the moronic idea which Bush admins supposedly had in mind -claimed by some CIA agent in a book. That people will jump on to hug an alien culture that has destroyed them over and over again and finally arrive to invade and kill them. Because they are not defined as people and you are treating them as sheep yourself from the beginning and when they spread, when they successfully find a way to strike back according to the circumstances you declare war on them.

From removing their local products to stating dictators or invading their countries. 50 shades of stupidity. But of course money, resource and political power stands taller. Nobody cares what happens to Westerners or Easterners or such.   

See, this is NOT free thinking. This is playing to the choir; supporting the old mainstream politics expressed with good dictation and voice in a reasonably agressive stand that actually doesn't explain anything, produce no solution but what put us into this position in the first place.


The reason Hichens is loved by British-American atheists is because basically he has done what Donald Drumpf is doing to a group of American Christians right now in a different manner. He satisfies people's anger and frustration about a certain culture in black and white in a society drowning in political correctness of its own. He conveys perfectly what peoople want to hear withe stance they want to see, but the thing she says has no stand in real life practices.

Men like Hitchens and Harris are inflated, hyped up parental figures of an isolated culture who is beating the croner of the table showing it to the crying kid who just hit his head to that point.

Result is underestimation of Islamic terrorism. Underestimation of Muslim peoples good or bad. We return to the beginning; a few of billions of people who have never been counted as humans or peoples. Vicious lethal circle.


There is no plot. There is no conspiracy. There is no need for anything extra.

[Baruch]

"Westernisation has nothing to do with secularistaion or progress" ,,,  billions of people got this wrong, but it was great for the Anglo-American Empire.  IT also works great with the proletariat in the West.  Bravo!

[GrinningYMIR]

There is a crucial thing Hitchens -like the others like him- misses here about 'covering' women in Islam. And it is a very good example of his general vision; a common western vision to be exact- which brought us to this point in the first place. These problems do not occur by themselves just like that or fall down from the skies, just because of a religion. This goes for Christianity in the US too.

When you try to change these things -headscarf- like they have tried in Turkey for example, you immediately politicise them, esp. solid things like headscarf and all forms of religious or cultural dressing codes and make it a symbol of a certain class. You victimise people by imposing your own life style, because social standings, identity, class...they are all attached to these codes.

This is what happened in Turkey. They banned headscarf in schools and universities, state buildings for female workers...you name it and they made it a solid political symbol of their oppression. Religions class has been defined as the lowest ince the declaration of the republic. (Ironically, what's more Turkey has been loudly criticised out loud for this before 9/11 for decades and this has always been the headlines about the country for a long time.

Fuck anyone's side, it IS oppression, I don't care how much people hate the other or adores their own culture. These policies were applied in the name of WESTERNISATION. And they didn't work. Why would they? Secularisation is NOT equal to Westernisation, infact Westernisation has nothing to do with secularisation or progress.

It was about creating societies to sell products from life style to food, from cars to social culture. It didn't work and we are paying the price. Nobody even thought about it what would happen in time with globalisation and and demographics. It was about the sale.

Looking back now it is actually so stupid to think that it would work, the whole expectation is actually the same with the moronic idea which Bush admins supposedly had in mind -claimed by some CIA agent in a book. That people will jump on to hug an alien culture that has destroyed them over and over again and finally arrive to invade and kill them. Because they are not defined as people and you are treating them as sheep yourself from the beginning and when they spread, when they successfully find a way to strike back according to the circumstances you declare war on them.

From removing their local products to stating dictators or invading their countries. 50 shades of stupidity. But of course money, resource and political power stands taller. Nobody cares what happens to Westerners or Easterners or such.   

See, this is NOT free thinking. This is playing to the choir; supporting the old mainstream politics expressed with good dictation and voice in a reasonably agressive stand that actually doesn't explain anything, produce no solution but what put us into this position in the first place.


The reason Hichens is loved by British-American atheists is because basically he has done what Donald Drumpf is doing to a group of American Christians right now in a different manner. He satisfies people's anger and frustration about a certain culture in black and white in a society drowning in political correctness of its own. He conveys perfectly what peoople want to hear withe stance they want to see, but the thing she says has no stand in real life practices.

Men like Hitchens and Harris are inflated, hyped up parental figures of an isolated culture who is beating the croner of the table showing it to the crying kid who just hit his head to that point.

Result is underestimation of Islamic terrorism. Underestimation of Muslim peoples good or bad. We return to the beginning; a few of billions of people who have never been counted as humans or peoples. Vicious lethal circle.


There is no plot. There is no conspiracy. There is no need for anything extra.

In addition to all of that. He has bad hair

[reasonist]

"This is what happened in Turkey. They banned headscarf in schools and universities, state buildings for female workers...you name it and they made it a solid political symbol of their oppression. Religions class has been defined as the lowest ince the declaration of the republic. (Ironically, what's more Turkey has been loudly criticised out loud for this before 9/11 for decades and this has always been the headlines about the country for a long time."

The other side of the coin:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/iran-arrests-fashion-girls-posing-hijabs-160516131844774.html

7,000 new undercover police to find and arrest women without the head rag. The idyllic life in a theocracy...

[Baruch]

Anti-social behavior must be punished, otherwise they will have to open a Gap store, and go bankrupt paying for Junior fashions ;-)