KKK Grandwizard William Quigg Endorses Hillary

[Baruch]

Why not?  I notice she hasn't done so.

Salted Crackers ... salted with green.

[widdershins]

Not what I read.  He seems to be speaking straight.  All politicians are liars, so it is unnecessary to say that Hillary lies.  And all politicians do the opposite of what they campaigned about, once they get into office, see Obama.  Your paraphrase (not quote) of what he said is a misquote.  Here is what he said:

“We want Hillary Clinton to win,” Mr Quigg told The Telegraph. “She is telling everybody one thing, but she has a hidden agenda. She’s telling everybody what they want to hear so she can get elected, because she’s Bill Clinton’s wife, she’s close to the Bushes. [But] once she’s in the presidency, she’s going to come out and her true colours are going to show."

Don't break your back doing a limbo to parse them.

“We don’t like his hair. We think it’s a toupee,” Quigg said. “He won’t do what he says he will do. He says he’s going to build a 20-foot high fence along the border with Mexico and make them pay. How’s he going to do that?”

So much for Trump being the next Hitler.  If he was the next Hitler, this guy would still be on side with Trump.

I would use the same paraphrase, given the quote you posted.

You're taking a KKK leader at his word.  Do you think he doesn't know that his endorsement is a poison pill?  Your entire argument here relies on taking a KKK member completely at his word.  Because you can't trust a politician!  But this KKK guy...he seems legit.

Your logic here is a little shaky, and I'm afraid your facts are wrong.  Politicians never keep all their campaign promises, but that hardly means they "do the opposite of what they campaigned about" when they take office.  A simple Politifact check shows that he has hardly done "the opposite" of what he campaigned for.  I could make the same shaky argument against Mr. Mediocre, Bush Sr.  He made a BIG DEAL out of "No new taxes!"  First thing, new taxes.  But that was ONE PROMISE among many and hardly constitutes doing "the opposite" of what he campaigned for.  In this one, single area, yes.  But that's not deserving such a sweeping generalization.

Just because you like Trump doesn't mean you should suspend your usual level of intellect in his defense, and this post was not your usual level of intellect.  Not even close.  I don't blindly support Obama or Hillary or Sanders.  I don't pretend that they are perfect for the country or could do no wrong.  If you point out a problem with them (a REAL problem, not the conjecture you just made up because you don't like them), I can accept that.  They are all flawed, as we all are.  But let's debate on merits rather than pretending that one KKK guy is on the up and up and really, truly supports Hillary.  Especially over Trump, who, let's face it, VERY MUCH DOES appeal to racist people.  Whether he is racist or not is irrelevant.  The message, "We need to get rid of all illegal aliens and stop Muslims from entering this country" translates very readily in their heads to, "We need to get rid of all the Mexicans and stop Arabs from entering this country."  The two sentences may not mean the same thing, but the effect is virtually the same for both, which does appeal to racists.  That is just a fact, my friend.

[Baruch]

Alas ... you are connecting my dots and getting a different picture than myself ;-)  This happens in ideological politics all the time.

So we can assume that all KKK people are racist?  That is probably correct.  We can assume all KKK people are stupid?  Probably not correct.  We can assume all KKK people are dishonest?  Probably not correct.

On the other hand, ideologically (counter examples don't matter) I assume any politician is lying, before or after election.  That isn't the same as they will do the opposite of what they say after election ... reality isn't that binary.  I said "He seems to be speaking straight" ... unlike George W ... I can't look into Putin's soul and know he is an OK guy ;-)

It is OK to be ideologically against Mr Trump, or against the variety of folks who are attracted to his "apparent" message ... just be sure you and your audience know that you are speaking ideologically.  As far as my personal position ... I haven't done much to reveal that ... since I am mostly waiting for campaign/convention things to sort out.

[Jason Harvestdancer]

You're taking a KKK leader at his word.  Do you think he doesn't know that his endorsement is a poison pill?  Your entire argument here relies on taking a KKK member completely at his word.

Nobody made that argument when a different KKK guy endorsed Trump.  Instead Trump was asked several times to disavow that one guy, and did, and when he finally got annoyed enough to tell yet another reporter with that same question to buzz off, that was repeated as if he hadn't made the previous disavowals.

Yet Hillary has not been asked to disavow this guy, nor has she volunteered to do so without being asked.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I don't really care who endorses who because I wouldn't vote for anyone just because someone endorsed them, much less some kkk asswipe..
Oh look!  Celebrity X endorsed Candidate Y.. Well FUCK! I better not vote for Y because X endorsed them!
There was a time when endorsements actually meant something, but now it's like someone telling us to all wipe our asses with old rusty tin cans and to avoid soft tissue at all costs..
If you're hung up on who is endorsing who you probably shouldn't be voting in the first place.

[FaithIsFilth]

Nobody made that argument when a different KKK guy endorsed Trump.  Instead Trump was asked several times to disavow that one guy, and did, and when he finally got annoyed enough to tell yet another reporter with that same question to buzz off, that was repeated as if he hadn't made the previous disavowals.

Yet Hillary has not been asked to disavow this guy, nor has she volunteered to do so without being asked.

The KKK guy was clearly trolling and being sarcastic. He said he thinks Hillary is just pretending to be anti-gun, so clearly it's a troll and I don't think it's necessary for Hillary to disavow Quigg.

[Baruch]

The KKK guy was clearly trolling and being sarcastic. He said he thinks Hillary is just pretending to be anti-gun, so clearly it's a troll and I don't think it's necessary for Hillary to disavow Quigg.

If people assume that Trump is Jefferson Davis ... then there is no need for him to disavow the other KKK guy, or Nathan Bedford Forrest for that matter ;-)  All government officials are anti-gun, they just don't all come out and say it.  They know who the guns are trained on ;-(

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The KKK guy was clearly trolling and being sarcastic. He said he thinks Hillary is just pretending to be anti-gun, so clearly it's a troll and I don't think it's necessary for Hillary to disavow Quigg.

It is necessary because she hasn't done so.  You are the one giving Hillary credit by saying the KKK guy was trolling.

Unless Hillary says that, I'll have no choice but to assume she is ok with the endorsement.

[Baruch]

Corn pone don't fall far from the skillet ;-)

[widdershins]

Nobody made that argument when a different KKK guy endorsed Trump.  Instead Trump was asked several times to disavow that one guy, and did, and when he finally got annoyed enough to tell yet another reporter with that same question to buzz off, that was repeated as if he hadn't made the previous disavowals.

Yet Hillary has not been asked to disavow this guy, nor has she volunteered to do so without being asked.

I really hope you're not serious with that post, because if you are you are either uninformed, misinformed or willfully ignorant of the facts.  First, David Duke did not formally endorse Trump because he knew better, saying, "...I haven’t formally endorsed him. But I do support his candidacy, and I support voting for him as a strategic action. I hope he does everything we hope he will do."  It was an endorsement, to be sure, but he didn't come out and say it, saying just the opposite so that nobody could claim he did.  The guy obviously loves Trump.  He said voting for anyone other than Trump was "treason to your heritage."  He even said you should volunteer for Trump.  AND STILL he went out of his way to say that he did not "formally endorse" Trump.  He did that because he knows a KKK endorsement is a poison pill.

Second, the "everything we hope he will do" from the above quote translates to "get rid of all the Mexicans".  If you disagree with that you're just being obtuse.  He likes Trump because his message is appealing to racists.

But when you look at Hillary's endorsement from Quigg, it's COMPLETELY different.  It WAS an actual "endorsement".  He said, "We want Hillary Clinton to win."  And why?  Essentially, because she's a liar.  Because everything she says is a lie so she stands for exactly the opposite of what she says.  Because she thinks JUST LIKE Quigg in secret.

I'm sure you'll argue against that.  If you really believe what you wrote then facts likely don't mean much to you anyway, as they don't to most conservatives who desperately want to pretend that Hillary Clinton personally lead the attack on Benghazi.  These days I don't have much more respect for conservatives (as a whole, not all individual conservatives everywhere) than I do for any other given religious group, because conservatism these days is completely indistinguishable from a religion.  There are certain things that you HAVE TO believe and that you WILL believe, regardless what the facts say.  And those things include that Hillary Clinton is evil and anything negative said by, about or to her, spoken in her presence or in an article within a week of another, unrelated article vaguely mentioning someone who may be her is directly attributed to her and any negativity about a conservative, especially a favored conservative, is a blatant lie, even when it's true, and utterly unfair in every way.

The FACT is that Trump's message is attractive to, IN ADDITION TO OTHER, UNRELATED PEOPLE, racists and xenophobes.  The FACT is that Hillary's message simply is not.  You can twist the facts all you want, find all the Benghazis you can remotely link to Hillary through abuses of associative logic, you can DEFINITELY point out some bad things about her (I certainly don't think she's anything near resembling honest or sincere, but I don't think that about most politicians) and you can pretend that an ACTUAL endorsement of Trump by Duke is nowhere near as bad as a SARCASTIC endorsement of Hillary by Quigg because this bogus reason or that bogus reason, but like all religious apologetics, at the end of the day you're only convincing people who already believe anyway.  You'll sway me, and most of the people here, only with facts, which are not on your side here.  Save the conservative propaganda and conspiracy nuttery about Hillary being the devil for your next GOP meeting, now become the DOP, the Delusional Old Party.

[Baruch]

I don't want Bill in the White House again ... if she would kill him and mount his head over the fireplace, I would vote for Hillary.

[widdershins]

I don't want Bill in the White House again ... if she would kill him and mount his head over the fireplace, I would vote for Hillary.

Now there is an honest response that I can respect.  It's simple and straightforward with no propaganda pretending to be based in reality.  If the entire right-wing was still this honest then when people asked me how I intended to vote my response would not be "Anyone but the Republican".

[Baruch]

I can respect Sanders, so I can vote for him.  I don't respect Trump, but if the alternative is Hillary ... then no dice.

How about JEB endorsing Cruz .. I didn't think JEB could limbo that low!

[widdershins]

I can respect Sanders, so I can vote for him.  I don't respect Trump, but if the alternative is Hillary ... then no dice.

How about JEB endorsing Cruz .. I didn't think JEB could limbo that low!

He's a Bush and he threw a presidential election to get his brother in office by "losing" predominantly black people's votes.  I hate Cruz, but supporting him has got to be a step up from treason.

[Mermaid]

I can respect Sanders, so I can vote for him.  I don't respect Trump, but if the alternative is Hillary ... then no dice.

How about JEB endorsing Cruz .. I didn't think JEB could limbo that low!

If Clinton wins the nomination, you're voting for Trump!? Seriously?