Author Topic: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?  (Read 5447 times)

Offline aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2016, 09:57:44 PM »
In this context, an "accidental" creator, a "purposeful" creator, a "non-interventionist" creator,  are all manifest portrayal of a god entity.
not according to the definition you supplied in the OP. In fact your next definition of atheism does not have the word creator at all, but the word god, therefore two SEPARATE ideas completely.


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I suppose it all comes down to semantics and etymology.
I suggests it comes down to the definition you supplied.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Online PickelledEggs

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2016, 10:03:49 PM »
It really all comes down to if what the supreme being the deist is talking about is. If it's a supernatural being of some sort, its a god and they are not an atheist. If it's an advanced alien of some sort, maybe they are.
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2016, 10:04:13 PM »
If a deist doesn't believe in a deity, they are not a deist. They might think it's an alien or some kind of advanced creature, but that is not a god and makes them outside of the category of deist.

What is so hard about reading the  definition supplied by the OP? Here it is again:
de·ism
ˈdēizəm,ˈdāizəm/
[noun]
Belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

AGAIN, where does the OP definition say GOD? Point it out please.

NOW, where the hell does it say it CANNOT be an alien? Or a janitor? Being the creator of a universe makes even a janitor a supreme being. You guys are getting all bent out of shape over simplicity.

If a highly intelligent thing creates a universe by accident, it is NOT a god. NOTHING suggests it can intervene in human affairs or even its OWN affairs. Really, this is very easy shit here. Stop twisting your brain over making a janitor into a god.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Online PickelledEggs

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2016, 10:16:58 PM »
You're getting pretty bent out of shape about this... Deity is in the name deist. Deity is another word for God.

Like I said. It comes down to what we're talking about. Is it a deity? Or an advanced being? Is the method for creation supernatural? Or technology? If it's the former in either of those, they're under the category of deity, making the person a deist. If it's the latter, not so much.


And you're the guy bringing janitors in to this... What does a janitor have to do with anything in this?

It's as simple as: If a person believes in a deity, they're a deist. If they don't, they're not.

-Sent from your mom

« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 10:18:56 PM by PickelledEggs »
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2016, 10:19:44 PM »
Not a good plan ... if they could, you would be in more trouble than a woman with a red A letter on her dress ... you can either float and be executed for a witch, or sink and drown.  Your choice ;-)
I think I'll have a float................a root beer float.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2016, 10:36:53 PM »
Deity is another word for God.
Not by the definition of the OP, start  new thread and supply YOUR definition and we can discuss this, but a creator is NOT a god. PERIOD.

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Like I said. It comes down to what we're talking about.

BINGO! Lets stick with the definition supplied by the OP and stop creating your own.
 
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And you're the guy bringing janitors in to this... What does a janitor have to do with anything in this?
Because the "creator" in no way suggests a "purposeful creator" get it? Nothing suggests it was done on PURPOSE which also opens the door for accidental which mean a janitor could have spilled his "magic spring blossom" cleaner into a drain and created our universe.

So WHY would they worship this? Why would you? It doesn't fucking care. It is NOT A FUCKING GOD!



A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline SkyChief (OP)

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2016, 01:32:06 AM »
Wikipedia lists Deism as a type of Theism.

1   Types of Theism:

1.1   Monotheism
1.2   Polytheism
1.3   Pantheism and panentheism
1.4   Deism
1.5   Autotheism
1.6   Value-judgment theisms


It defines Theism as:

Theism, in the field of comparative religion, is the belief in the existence of deities.  In popular parlance, the term theism often describes the classical conception of god(s) that is found in the monotheistic and polytheistic religions.

So the Wikipedia explanation is consistent with the axiom that Deism can never be considered atheist.

PickledEggs is correct when he stated
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Deity is just another word for god

Regardless of context. In a monotheistic religion a deity is the creator and supreme being [God].

In a polytheistic religion, it is a god or goddess.
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."    - Albert Einstein

Offline aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2016, 08:10:48 AM »
Hey, call it whatever you want. If a creator does nothing at all, just disappears and never comes back, does not demand to be prayed to, does not proclaim that it did anything, leaves no evidence of its existence, does not even leave anything to suggests it exists, has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with its creation and perhaps CANNOT do anything regarding its creation….buddy, that is not a god. There is nothing that suggests it is anything more than a cockroach. If you wish to go about saying cockroaches are gods then go right ahead.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2016, 08:39:57 AM »
I don't see a huge difference between creator vs god, since the function in that respect is the same. Either way its a "do nothing and be invisible for centuries" role.

Like something falling into a pond. Shit happens and nobody sees the cause. But since nobody saw anything the default is a guy did it. God is a guy. Can't be a quantum hiccup or none of that other shit, the cause has got to be a guy. Prove it? Nope. But its got to be a guy. Why? Because it is always a guy, just is. Something falling out of an airplane? Nope. Got to be a guy. Why? Because some semi literate sheepherder 6,000 years ago said it was a guy. Therefore every other possibility must be excluded. Case closed. Carry on.

Offline Baruch

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2016, 08:46:30 AM »
"Something falling out of an airplane?" ... ever see "The Gods Must Be Crazy"?
שלום

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2016, 08:55:59 AM »
"Something falling out of an airplane?" ... ever see "The Gods Must Be Crazy"?

Yes I have. A white guy told me that was a racist picture. A priesthood bearing Mormon white guy. In Utah that is the go to source.

Offline Baruch

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2016, 09:05:37 AM »
Yes I have. A white guy told me that was a racist picture. A priesthood bearing Mormon white guy. In Utah that is the go to source.

It wasn't racist ... it was very funny.  The butt of the jokes were the White people.  My favorite bit was when the elephant shit scientist got his Landrover stuck up a tree.  The San guy, the primary character ... was the last of his kind ... they don't live that way anymore, they are on a reservation.  There is no longer anyone who can live like we all did in the Stone Age.  When civilization goes down, there will be no survivors, because running around with a complicated gun can only be done for so long.  Because there is nobody to teach us how ... that and people who lived like the San used to ... were incredibly fit.  Even if we learned, we wouldn't be physically able to do it.
שלום

Offline aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2016, 12:02:45 PM »
You may twist and jump through whatever hoops one wants, but the definition specifically "rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind" you have eliminated a god, and replaced it with a creator which is not a god. Therefore, were this the last post thread, I would simply proclaim. I win.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Online PickelledEggs

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2016, 03:10:13 PM »
I win.

lol ok aitm. whatever you want
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2016, 03:55:10 PM »
Atheism means lack of evidence in the existence of a deity. Anything else is not about atheism. An atheist can believe in voodooism, spirituality, ghosts, landing on the moon is a hoax... whatever, but none of that pertains to atheism.  capisci...