Author Topic: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?  (Read 3354 times)

Offline SkyChief (OP)

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2016, 05:20:24 PM »
To many atheist is a dirty word and often used in the pejorative. I went from theist to deist to atheist to then redefine myself as a secular humanist. Words are a thing with me, so specific definitions are big in my world. Secular humanist doesn't seem to carry the connotations atheism does, so I prefer to call myself that. You also get a WTF response when you identify as that, which opens doors for discussion. My personal thing. Carry on.

Would you consider your re-defining yourself as a secular humanist an advancement in your ideology, or simply a method to avoid identifying as atheist?

Im not trying to be a smart-ass.  Serious question.  : )
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."    - Albert Einstein

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2016, 05:28:34 PM »
Kind of in the way a square is also a rectangle... theists are also deists. Not strictly in the same sense, but it's similar enough for a comparison.

Theists are deists, but with a more specific way of going about believing it... usually with the rules and story-line that goes with that religion and that religion's specific god. Deists just believe in a general deity.


It's also kind of like saying "I'm a fan of super heroes" vs saying "I'm a fan of Superman"
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline Baruch

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2016, 06:29:12 PM »
One letter.
Jeesh, I'm confused now.

The second line is correct in modern terms, as per the people posting here.

The first line is correct in old terms, as per the people 250 years ago (atheism was defined more broadly).
שלום

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2016, 06:56:14 PM »
atheism is the lack of a belief in a god/gods.  A deist has to believe in some type of deity.   And a deity is a god.  So, a deist is a form of theism.  Simple.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2016, 07:00:53 PM »
atheism is the lack of a belief in a god/gods.  A deist has to believe in some type of deity.   And a deity is a god.  So, a deist is a form of theism.  Simple.

Yes, in modern technical terms.  People of prior generations would disagree.
שלום

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2016, 07:01:35 PM »
Yes, in modern technical terms.  People of prior generations would disagree.
Then have them come visit me and we will talk about it. :)
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2016, 07:03:38 PM »
Then have them come visit me and we will talk about it. :)

Not a good plan ... if they could, you would be in more trouble than a woman with a red A letter on her dress ... you can either float and be executed for a witch, or sink and drown.  Your choice ;-)
שלום

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2016, 07:15:12 PM »
atheism is the lack of a belief in a god/gods.  A deist has to believe in some type of deity.   And a deity is a god.  So, a deist is a form of theism.  Simple.
Technically, it's reversed: theism is a form of deism, but yes. Absolutely
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2016, 08:24:11 PM »
Technically, it's reversed: theism is a form of deism, but yes. Absolutely
Here's the way I see it:  there's theism (belief in a god) and atheism (lack of belief in a god).  These options and mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive, so there's no third option here.  Among theists, there's monotheism and polytheism.  Among monotheists, there are those who believe in a personal god who intervenes in the world and those who do not (deists).  It gets messier than that given the wide variety and often idiosyncratic nature of religious beliefs, but that's the general picture.

Online aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2016, 09:45:19 PM »
Some sort of divine being who created the universe seems an awfully lot like a god.
 
I saw nothing in original posts that suggested "divine"

Quote
In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the very definition of a god. 

perhaps, but the definition supplied in the OP did not suggest a divine god that intervenes in human affairs, in fact it said the exact OPPOSITE, a creator that does NOT intervene in human affairs which removes any and all similarities to a god.

Quote
And separating deism from deity (I suspect that they might have some sort of root word in common) seems like an exercise in futility.
not the argument, the argument is deity to god, and by his definition in the OP there is NO god currently worshipped in the annals of humanity that fit this description. Therefore, I hold my point is valid.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Online aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2016, 09:47:53 PM »
Deity is just another word for god...
Not according to the OP definition. Lets stick with the OP here, after all the OP supplied the definition and it is NOT a god it easily is a janitor who spilled the cleaning material into a sink.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Online aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2016, 09:49:10 PM »
   And a deity is a god. 
I refer back to the OP's definition, and that most certainly is NOT a god.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2016, 09:49:23 PM »
Not according to the OP definition. Lets stick with the OP here, after all the OP supplied the definition and it is NOT a god it easily is a janitor who spilled the cleaning material into a sink.
Quite simply, if it's not a god that the deist believes in, they aren't a deist.

-Sent from your mom

"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Online aitm

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2016, 09:51:50 PM »
Quite simply, if it's not a god that the deist believes in, they aren't a deist.

-Sent from your mom


Quite simply, you are wrong. A creator is no more god than you or I. The OP definition does not say the creator CAN intervene, it only suggests it won't which makes it irrelevant. What is so hard about this? A janitor is not a god, and you insist that a janitor is a god.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 09:53:30 PM by aitm »
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Can A Deist Be Considered Atheist?
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2016, 09:56:07 PM »
Quite simply, you are wrong. A creator is no more god than you or I. The OP definition does not say the creator CAN intervene, it only suggests it won't which makes it irrelevant. What is so hard about this? A janitor is not a god, and you insist that a janitor is a god.
If a deist doesn't believe in a deity, they are not a deist. They might think it's an alien or some kind of advanced creature, but that is not a god and makes them outside of the category of deist.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 09:58:10 PM by PickelledEggs »
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE