About the idea that conspiracies are all nonsense?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Shitty title.. I used that because I just went blank with a title..

Anyways.. I got to thinking about the notion that government or people within government or even private citizens would never be willing to kill citizens for profit or other reasons.. Take 911 as an example..
The argument is that there's either no motivation or too much standing in the way,  but consider this.
We have a nation of people willing to arm themselves to the teeth out of fear someone might break into our homes to swipe our lawn mower  or whatever.  Oh! Someone will knock you over the head for 20 bucks so I need to be armed..
The very same person might also tell you that nobody in government, etc. would be willing to kill say..3000 people for money or power..
I don't see the logic.  If someone is willing to kill you over 20 bucks just imagine the motivation to kill for a few million or more.. maybe a few billion..  It's not as if street thugs have the monopoly on greed and violence.
I'm not trying to start a 911 conspiracy theory argument, just using this as a lousy example..
I've had this argument before about people in power who supposedly wouldn't kill fellow citizens for profit. Put enough money on the table and a good enough plan to get away with it and there is motivation enough..
I'm not pointing fingers or trying to get any conspiracy things going, just trying to get it through people's minds that a billion dollars is a hell of a bigger motivation to murder people than the lousy 20 bucks in your wallet..

[mauricio]

The problem of the 9/11 conspiracy are their innacurate portrayals of the reality of the collapse. The MIT study about it pretty much sealed the argument there. The thing about conspiracy theories is the assumption of overly evil intent to the point of being unpragmatic. Their statements about reality do not coincide with it they are far too paranoid. What usually happens instead is mutually beneficial interests coinciding and creating a large effect that impacts the world. Like the military spending linked with the military industry pushing in the same direction to benefit each other. I think this might be a secondary effect of the clever trick of capitalism that makes you help other people by actually benefitting yourself. That is called the free market and legal tender. As ultimately we are primarily selfish and only protect our kin the market makes mutually agreed trades a great way to share resources around the population without having to force them into communism by force. The problem is when certain individuals get so much money they bend the rules of the market in their favor through corruption which apparently is legal in the US and called lobbying. And when enough big money interests coincide your country can go to war. It's more of a prospiracy than a conspiracy.

[aitm]

Unlike our previous history culminating in Kent State and perhaps Waco, the government has shown little hesitation to kill us. I think this is a lot harder to do. Social media has ripped open the very idea that nameless soldiers can stand in single file in front of a library and open fire on students. Moms and Dads and sisters and brothers are at both ends of the encounter, quite easy to see too. Within seconds people can call out someones name in either side. Familiarity may breed contempt but its a little harder to shoot someone that teaches your child, or operates a soup kitchen you used to go to.

As far as "secret governmental ops" yeah, I can see that. I could see a plane being shot out of the sky. But there are so many levels to go through to keep it secret. Every pilot probably assumes once he hits the trigger that someone behind him is lining him up right now, and that pilot as well, and the captain…I don't know, its a harsh realization that normal people go about killing others for no gain.

The medical and pharma may be suspect but all those tech and lab  rats weren't born in a test tube, they have people they care for as well. Stack a few Dick Cheney's in line and now you got me looking for a big ole cave.

[widdershins]

I don't buy into any conspiracy "theories" as that word is used in the layman's sense of "wild-ass idea".  I buy into it when it becomes conspiracy fact, backed by documentation and real evidence.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A conspiracy theorist is a person who puts forth a malicious and fallacious set of stories about a person or group with the intentions of causing that person or persons harm. The stories take the shape of a set of theories that explain the REAL REASON an event occurred. This is termed a conspiracy theory.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I'm not pushing conspiracy theories, just saying that violence and robbery are not limited to the shady character hanging out by the ally way.. The bigger the prize the more likely that someone is going to spend some time plotting to take it from you and that plot very well may involve violence.
I just don't get that people are just fine if a guy in a suit swindles them vs a guy in a tshirt..  It's somehow ok if the clean cut, well dressed guy takes all your money, but a guy in a tshirt should be killed on the spot for even thinking about it? 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm not pushing conspiracy theories, just saying that violence and robbery are not limited to the shady character hanging out by the ally way.. The bigger the prize the more likely that someone is going to spend some time plotting to take it from you and that plot very well may involve violence.
I just don't get that people are just fine if a guy in a suit swindles them vs a guy in a tshirt..  It's somehow ok if the clean cut, well dressed guy takes all your money, but a guy in a tshirt should be killed on the spot for even thinking about it? 

Who are the people who are just fine with being swindled?

[Baruch]

Who are the people who are just fine with being swindled?

Almost all people are rubes ... swindled every day or at least every other day.  Nobody, particularly the rube, wants to admit what an ass-hat they are.  In capitalism and politics, you are either the con artist or the mark.  Choose wisely ;-)

[Baruch]

I don't buy into any conspiracy "theories" as that word is used in the layman's sense of "wild-ass idea".  I buy into it when it becomes conspiracy fact, backed by documentation and real evidence.

This is why most will remain speculations, either plausible or implausible.  We still don't know who all were behind the Lincoln assassination.  There is evidence that Sec of War Stanton was involved.  Lincoln's surviving son, carefully burned all his parent's correspondence (no Presidential Library back then) ... young Teddy Roosevelt visited him one night, while he was doing so, Teddy asked him what he was doing, and that is what Lincoln's son said.

With the US government producing 100% propaganda non-stop ... I doubt any official story of the past 75 years.  Truth is the first fatality in war, and the US government has been at war against everyone, including the US population, for 75 years now.

[stromboli]

Right now the Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson and probably many others are doing their best to manipulate government in elections and changing opinions with misinformation. The news media outlets in this country are altogether owned by six different different corporations. It is safe to say that these corporations have political opinions. Just look at how Rupert Murdoch took over National Geographic, a major science related periodical and started a "new chapter" in their history.

Not saying there are conspiracies but the means is certainly there. The Illuminati conspiracy theories started with a real organization, Adam Weishaupt and the Bavarian Illuminati. which was an "enlightened" group of Masons. They did in fact make efforts to control politics in Bavaria and nearby countries.

The Catholic church got away with centuries of horrific acts because of their power and their  political connections. It is certainly possible. Nothing wrong with examining shit to see what is behind it. The Order of Knights Templar was abolished by the Catholic Church in a sweep of several countries. There are still shows on now about what happened to Templar gold; they were supposedly at one time a vastly wealthy group. The supposed gold is still missing. That is a conspiracy with some fact behind it.

I've worked to debunk a few conspiracy theorists on here; some of you will remember the long running 9/11 mess we had. But I don't discount the possibility, and I will study it before I deny it.

[FaithIsFilth]

If I were President at the time, and I want war in Iraq, I'm letting the twin towers get knocked down. It's the smart move. Can anyone here propose a better way to get the American population to support war all over the Middle East for decades to come, and for them to have less of a problem with a bunch of their rights starting to disappear? I can't think of a better way to do it. Bush and Cheney did the smart thing and things went down flawlessly. Hatred and fear of Muslims is still so strong in so many Americans because of that day that you even have the majority of Americans now supporting a ground invasion of Syria.

The biggest joke is when people say they don't think the people in power were evil enough to do something like this, or let something like this happen. What a joke. The same people who were fine with over a million dying in Iraq? They weren't evil enough? When you have no issue with millions of deaths, three thousand is a drop in the bucket and is fuck all in the big picture. You don't get to be President if your morals aren't all screwed up. Yeah, it might be easier for you to get by thinking that your government cares about it's people and wouldn't let something like that happen, just like it might be easier for a theist who thinks god cares about them and is watching their back. I don't need that false sense of security.

I don't think it matters if the Bush administration had anything to do with 9/11. I don't know if 9/11 was an inside job, and I do not care if it was. It's pretty much irrelevant to me. Invading all these countries in the Middle East and taking away Americans rights is the big evil act. Letting 9/11 happen is pretty minor, and it's only smart to have 9/11 happen if your plan is already to go into Iraq. Bush gets called a moron all the time for not being bright enough to stop 9/11 even when he had warnings... I think if Bush and Cheney were truly morons, they would have stopped 9/11 from happening.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Almost all people are rubes ... swindled every day or at least every other day.  Nobody, particularly the rube, wants to admit what an ass-hat they are.  In capitalism and politics, you are either the con artist or the mark.  Chose wisely ;-)

That's different from being fine with it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If I were President at the time, and I want war in Iraq, I'm letting the twin towers get knocked down. It's the smart move.

Actually, it's idiotic.

[Baruch]

I didn't create the evil flying monkeys or the Wicked Witch of the West.  So don't complain to me about how reality is a scary children's movie from 1939.

If I am not OK with the tides, then like King Canute, I will use my kingly power to make them stop!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That's quite a bur you have under your saddle.