Author Topic: Death Penalty  (Read 9371 times)

Offline TomFoolery

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 08:44:46 PM »
Wow--and I thought I was harsh! :))  Actually, I think I like it. :)))

I've never been one for torture of any kind personally. The problem with torturing is that in order to exact it, you generally have to find someone that's at least as bad or worse than the person you're trying to punish.

I really hate it when people say something like, "pedophiles need to be brutally raped with a spiky dildo" or something to that effect? Where the fuck to you find someone to do something like that? How does one go about putting an ad on Indeed.com for a position that requires a sadomasochist with no ethical quandaries available on a flexible schedule?
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

Offline aitm

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2016, 08:54:40 PM »
No need to talk down to me.
 Killing them is not going to change that. I think this is a fallacious argument.

Well, lets be honest here. It was YOU that stated point blank:
Quote
Is it to remove dangers to society? Imprisonment does that.
And I pointed out quite clearly that you are wrong.
So how is this a fallacious argument?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline aitm

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2016, 08:58:34 PM »
How does one go about putting an ad on Indeed.com for a position that requires a sadomasochist with no ethical quandaries available on a flexible schedule?

I would say it is incredibly easy to find tens of thousand willing to do the deed. I think you could find even in your town, dozens of parents whose child has been raped or worse raped and murdered who would have no problem with the duty.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline TomFoolery

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2016, 09:20:24 PM »
I would say it is incredibly easy to find tens of thousand willing to do the deed. I think you could find even in your town, dozens of parents whose child has been raped or worse raped and murdered who would have no problem with the duty.

Are you suggesting human beings are capable of unimaginable cruelty on demand? I imagine there are lots of people who think they might be capable, people that probably even have a good motivation to as you said, but when push came to shove I don't think they could. I feel the reason torture is counterproductive is because I don't think you can take away someone else's humanity without sacrificing your own. The idea that lots of people could easily torture someone else sort of suggests these people would be doing it anyway if it weren't against the law, and isn't that what we make fun of religious people for? If you need laws and religion to tell you to be a good person, you're probably not a good person?

I get that most people are probably capable of killing someone in self-defense or acting brutally in the heat of the moment, but I doubt very seriously there's a large contingent out there who could accept such a job, calmly walk into a room and proceed to sodomize someone with a spiky dildo until they died and remain entirely free of emotions like guilt or empathy. It seems as though you're suggesting the people could not only do it and not feel empathy for the person, but they'd actually derive pleasure from it. I doubt there are many people who could do that who don't have preexisting psychological problems. If they didn't before, they certainly would after.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 10:28:11 PM by TomFoolery »
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

Offline Baruch

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2016, 10:14:13 PM »
I've never been one for torture of any kind personally. The problem with torturing is that in order to exact it, you generally have to find someone that's at least as bad or worse than the person you're trying to punish.

I really hate it when people say something like, "pedophiles need to be brutally raped with a spiky dildo" or something to that effect? Where the fuck to you find someone to do something like that? How does one go about putting an ad on Indeed.com for a position that requires a sadomasochist with no ethical quandaries available on a flexible schedule?

I am sure you could find one or more US presidential candidates willing to do it for the publicity ;-(

Nazis had to hire people already psychotic, but capable of following demented orders ... not average folks.

But the posts here ... by average human beings ... reinforce what I said elsewhere ... criminal punishment is about one group of people being sadists to another group of people, not necessarily worse, and who can be self righteous about it.  Society has done this for millennia.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 10:18:37 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline GSOgymrat

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2016, 10:13:41 AM »
I don't support the death penalty.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline aitm

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2016, 11:02:55 AM »
Are you suggesting human beings are capable of unimaginable cruelty on demand?

Nope, but I think an awful lot of them would have absolutely no issue with pulling the switch, pushing the button or kicking a bucket over.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline stromboli

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2016, 11:13:27 AM »
I don't think there is always an absolute right and wrong in decisions because circumstances often dictate the outcome of a crime. To me the issue is deliberation. If someone is killed in a bank robbery, for example, the intent was not initially to kill, but deadly force was implied by the threat of weapons. If someone sets out specifically to murder specific individuals as with the Menendez brothers, or the death was particularly heinous, then the death penalty should be considered.


Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2016, 11:18:30 AM »
I am definitely for the death penalty.  If you murder someone you don't deserve a chance at redemption because your victim didn't get one.

That being said, our legal system what it is, this is not a realistic philosophy for America as it is.  Trials in this country are a mockery of "justice", lawyers being trained how to effectively argue, not how to get to the truth.  Neither side in a court case gives a shit about the truth, just the argument.  And if you have lots of money you can use it to game the hell out of the system, even to the point where you make your legal troubles simply go away with money and legal tricks.  And mounting an effective legal defense generally requires a lot of money.  If a corporation sues you, you had better settle because you simply can't afford to not settle.  All of this means that the death penalty is reserved pretty much exclusively for the poor and underprivileged, who don't have a snowball's chance in hell of actually getting a fair shake if the system singles them out for some reason, be it to hurriedly close a case, they just don't like you or they're convinced, lack of evidence be damned, that you did it.  AND THEN you throw onto this giant pile of shit the fact that we have a for-profit legal and prison system and the entire thing just reeks of fuckery.  There is no way, given the shit system we have, the death penalty is in any way fair or fairly applied, especially in states like Texas where it is applied liberally.

So, the death penalty as a fair and just punishment for horrible crimes?  Sure.  I'm for that.  Useless people should be thrown away without remorse or compassion.  But the death penalty in the corrupt for-profit system we have in America which can't even decide if it's a system of punishment or reform, trying to be both and failing miserably on both fronts?  Fuck no!  There is no way in hell to justify allowing a corrupt system to dictate who lives and dies.
This sentence is a lie...

Offline Atheon

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2016, 01:56:52 PM »
I oppose the death penalty. It's barbaric and has no place in civilized society.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2016, 02:05:49 PM »
If they manage to change the law, we might get death penalty soon. Abhorrent. Useless. *Spit
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline The Skeletal Atheist

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2016, 02:25:40 PM »
If they manage to change the law, we might get death penalty soon. Abhorrent. Useless. *Spit
I honestly didn't know that Turkey didn't have capital punishment.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2016, 03:04:20 PM »
I've never been one for torture of any kind personally. The problem with torturing is that in order to exact it, you generally have to find someone that's at least as bad or worse than the person you're trying to punish.

I really hate it when people say something like, "pedophiles need to be brutally raped with a spiky dildo" or something to that effect? Where the fuck to you find someone to do something like that? How does one go about putting an ad on Indeed.com for a position that requires a sadomasochist with no ethical quandaries available on a flexible schedule?
TomFoolery, I was being a bit facetious.  I think aitm was, as well.  I learned long ago that personal revenge does not produce a good feeling or a desired outcome.  I think the same for society.  Revenge just really does not work well.  But that does not mean that a situation may need to be remedied.  If some one causes me harm, I seek to have that harm repaired.  Beyond that I don't go.  I don't need revenge. 

Using torture for anything doesn't work. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline aitm

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2016, 03:17:34 PM »
Really if the death penalty was up to me, at some "time" inmate x would have his dinner spiked and go to sleep and wake up dead. Real real easy, and very tidy.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline The Skeletal Atheist

Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2016, 04:17:45 PM »
Really if the death penalty was up to me, at some "time" inmate x would have his dinner spiked and go to sleep and wake up dead. Real real easy, and very tidy.
If we have to have the death penalty, my preferred method would be nitrogen asphyxiation. As an inert gas, nitrogen doesn't trigger the sensors that you're dying, you just knock out and die. It's quite literally the most painless way to kill someone. As an added bonus, you don't need any medical expertise to do it. Put them in a room, turn on the nitrogen,  and they're dead.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!