Author Topic: Missiles or food, which is more important?  (Read 6772 times)

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2016, 11:29:16 AM »
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But if you put money into it you can produce much more.
I don't know if you realize this, but money get's shit done, and we're wasting alot of it right now.
We have a military budget of 570 billion+ per year.

You haven't looked lately - it is obvious.  Or you are simply trying to make a political point.

The world is awash in basic commodities to make food.  We have more corn, rice, barley, wheat and soybeans in storage than you could ever imagine - Ending stocks, after all use this year, will be over 1.8 billion bushels of corn alone - each bushel of corn is approximately 60 US pounds.  The world is producing more pork, chicken, and beef than ever before - again ending stocks after use skyrocketed last year.  Getting that out of storage and in use would certainly end a lot of hunger.

The problem truly is distribution - and you want us to produce more?  The US price of corn and soybeans has been below production cost for 3 years in a row now.  We have so much wheat that farmers planted 3 million fewer acres this year (10% of total US production) - and the grain markets don't think it is enough to relieve the oversupply.

There is a case to be made to reduce the military budget, but it seems rather silly to tie it to global food shortages... especially when there is a record amount of basic food commodities in storage right now all over the world.

And it has been proven time and time again that giving money intended for food distribution does not work in many countries.  They truly want their people starving... for whatever reason.

Here is another fact, due to the plummet in diesel fuel - the cost of transportation of these commodities is now cheaper than it has been in ten years.

So at a time when we have more food in storage than ever before in human history, and we have the cheapest shipping charges in a decade, we still have people starving. 

The issue is decidedly not more money thrown at the problem of food production, IMO.

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2016, 11:41:56 AM »
@ GreatLife

Good points

The problem of famine is ladled with several endemic issues: lack of infrastructure like roads and storage facilities; frequent war and displacement; overwhelming dependence on livelihoods that are disrupted by natural disaster or climate change, lack of educational facilities and educational accessibility. 


Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2016, 01:32:02 PM »
Good post, GreatLife.
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2016, 07:18:55 PM »
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Money has always been popular ... otherwise nobody would counterfeit it, not even governments.  The first government counterfeiting was during the failure of Athens during the Peloponnesian War with Sparta.  They had to make the first clad coins (like the present US quarter) because they were running out of silver ... it was copper with silver plating.  The locals were heard to remark (in Greek) ... "Who produced this shit!" when the plating came off.  Today we have US pennies that are zinc, with copper plating ... money just like Mom used to make back in the old days ;-)  Examples of both genuine and fake drachmas of ancient Athens are still found today.

So not just corruption of the MIC ... something Socrates opposed, even though an uber-patriot.  But near perpetual warfare, means you are going for broke, fast!  I am sure some of the Athenians pocketed drachmas they hadn't earned ... in a place that actually paid you for jury duty.  But the penalties were quite severe ;-(  The Spartans, who won with treasonous outside Persian help ... just like the American colonists with French help, hated the very idea of money ... and only allowed iron rods as an intermediate barter.  Spartans weren't supposed to be in trade, except for blood-letting on the battlefield.  But gold coins from Persia were frequently attractive enough to even sway Spartan kings less hardened than Leonidas.
I read that the reason the penny is no longer pure copper (other than pure copper is too soft) is because clowns were hording pennies and trying to melt them down to sell at the scrap yards.. They could be made from glass it really doesn't matter.  If anyone thinks paper should be more valuable than copper clad zinc they would be right.  The same size paper is used from the $1 bill through every other denomination. It's not AS IF a $1000 bill is 1000 times bigger or thicker.. The only difference is the image used.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2016, 12:33:26 AM »
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I read that the reason the penny is no longer pure copper (other than pure copper is too soft) is because clowns were hording pennies and trying to melt them down to sell at the scrap yards.. They could be made from glass it really doesn't matter.  If anyone thinks paper should be more valuable than copper clad zinc they would be right.  The same size paper is used from the $1 bill through every other denomination. It's not AS IF a $1000 bill is 1000 times bigger or thicker.. The only difference is the image used.

Pure copper isn't used for money ever ... only bronze (copper plus tin etc).  Pure copper is to soft and doesn't age well.  Pretty much, copper hoarding hasn't happened outside of China ... they have been using metals other than gold or silver to back their currency.  Their ancient "cash" money was usually made of bronze.  Bronze is poor people money, silver for the merchant class, and gold for the royalty.

Of course it is funny, that while you and I can agree that Santa Claus isn't real, the Matrix says that equivalent sizes of paper money are not only worth unequal amounts according to the writing on them, we even agree that the paper money is worth anything at all.  And now with digital money, which is most money ... it is just entries on a special spreadsheet ledger.  Modern paper money, like modern paper, was the invention of China, the Southern Sung Dynasty in particular.  The Yuan or Mongol Dynasty that conquered the Sung Dynasty ... made it quite clear on the paper itself, why you should accept it in lieu of "cash" ... strings of bronze coins in 1000 units.  Silver was only available in ingots (called tael) and gold was only available to the Emperor.  To whit ... anyone who fails to accept the face value of this government receipt ... will face the displeasure of the Great Khan, up to including the decapitation of the rebel and his whole family.  That is why we accept digital money today ...
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Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2016, 11:48:45 AM »
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Pure copper isn't used for money ever ... only bronze (copper plus tin etc). 

Pre 1983 US minted pennies aren't bronze. They are a 95% copper 5% tin/other alloy. You have to have about 12% tin for the alloy to be considered bronze.

The problem with 95% copper pennies as scrap is the secondary copper market only trades for about half of the spot market. At today's spot prices $2.06/lb 1000 ($10 face value) pre 83 pennies would be worth about $13.44. On the secondary market you would probably only get $6-7 dollars for the copper. If copper was to go up to $3.50/lb on the spot market you could probably get $11-11.50 on the secondary market for your $10 worth of pennies. About 5 years ago copper peaked at around $4.50/lb. At that time you probably could have gotten about $15 for your $10 worth of 95% copper pennies.
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Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2016, 11:53:37 AM »
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Pre 1983 US minted pennies aren't bronze. They are a 95% copper 5% tin/other alloy. You have to have about 12% tin for the alloy to be considered bronze.

The problem with 95% copper pennies as scrap is the secondary copper market only trades for about half of the spot market. At today's spot prices $2.06/lb 1000 ($10 face value) pre 83 pennies would be worth about $13.44. On the secondary market you would probably only get $6-7 dollars for the copper. If copper was to go up to $3.50/lb on the spot market you could probably get $11-11.50 on the secondary market for your $10 worth of pennies. About 5 years ago copper peaked at around $4.50/lb. At that time you probably could have gotten about $15 for your $10 worth of 95% copper pennies.

We should scrap paper/coin money entirely, and just have debit/credit cards. That would be such a bombshell to that practice, notwithstanding all the drug dealers...

Offline aitm

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2016, 12:00:33 PM »
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We should scrap paper/coin money entirely, and just have debit/credit cards.
I don't know, then I wouldn't have a excuse to the hookers..."sorry, ain't got no cash"...now they swing their phone at me and swipe it.......er....... not that I know any hookers........er.......carry on.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2016, 12:02:06 PM »
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We should scrap paper/coin money entirely, and just have debit/credit cards. That would be such a bombshell to that practice, notwithstanding all the drug dealers...

I was about to say as long as I don't get a GPS tracking microchip implanted in my ass I'd be ok with that. Then I remembered that after the April 2011 tornadoes knocked out the power to pretty much everything in Alabama north of the Tennessee river for most of a week you couldn't buy a case of water or a bag of ice without cash unless you drove 50 miles first and decided it probably isn't a great idea.
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Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2016, 12:04:13 PM »
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I was about to say as long as I don't get a GPS tracking microchip implanted in my ass I'd be ok with that. Then I remembered that after the April 2011 tornadoes knocked out the power to pretty much everything in Alabama north of the Tennessee river for most of a week you couldn't buy a case of water or a bag of ice without cash unless you drove 50 miles first and decided it probably isn't a great idea.

Either you move out of Alabama or demand better power lines. How can you stand that?!?   ;-)

Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2016, 12:19:36 PM »
Actually we have a quite robust power system here in Huntsville. We have 3 main feeds. One from the west that is powered by both a nuclear plant and hydro. One from the east that is powered by both a nuclear plant, hydro and coal. One from the north that's mostly a coal fired grid. unfortunately between the the EF-5 to the west/north and an EF-4 to the east we lost a total of 254 of the big high tension power line towers on all three paths. I give the utilities a lot of credit for getting most people's power back up in less than a week.

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Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2016, 12:32:50 PM »
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Actually we have a quite robust power system here in Huntsville. We have 3 main feeds. One from the west that is powered by both a nuclear plant and hydro. One from the east that is powered by both a nuclear plant, hydro and coal. One from the north that's mostly a coal fired grid. unfortunately between the the EF-5 to the west/north and an EF-4 to the east we lost a total of 254 of the big high tension power line towers on all three paths. I give the utilities a lot of credit for getting most people's power back up in less than a week.



What is needed are towers that can withstand level 5 tornadoes.

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or better build the lines underground.

Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2016, 12:53:53 PM »
Where that pink line crosses the Tennessee river is about two miles from TVA's Browns Ferry nuclear plant. It has three GE BWR mark III reactors similar in design but much larger than reactor 1 at Fukushima and a shit load of spent fuel in storage. That's how close we came to having a lot bigger problems than no power for a few days.

When the plant lost power from the grid all three reactors were scrammed. That and what happened at Fukushima have made me wonder why a F'in nuclear power plant can't make it's own power to run the cooling pumps...
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Offline Baruch

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2016, 01:21:14 PM »
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Pre 1983 US minted pennies aren't bronze. They are a 95% copper 5% tin/other alloy. You have to have about 12% tin for the alloy to be considered bronze.

The problem with 95% copper pennies as scrap is the secondary copper market only trades for about half of the spot market. At today's spot prices $2.06/lb 1000 ($10 face value) pre 83 pennies would be worth about $13.44. On the secondary market you would probably only get $6-7 dollars for the copper. If copper was to go up to $3.50/lb on the spot market you could probably get $11-11.50 on the secondary market for your $10 worth of pennies. About 5 years ago copper peaked at around $4.50/lb. At that time you probably could have gotten about $15 for your $10 worth of 95% copper pennies.

It is illegal to melt down current coins, for their metal content.  This also applies to that billionaire who has all those nickels.  My ... you do split hairs ;-)  If the alloying agent is zinc, it isn't bronze it is brass.  But then you got a lot of brass, don't you ;-))
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: Missiles or food, which is more important?
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2016, 01:23:26 PM »
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We should scrap paper/coin money entirely, and just have debit/credit cards. That would be such a bombshell to that practice, notwithstanding all the drug dealers...

Can't wait for auto debit to the tax authorities ... or they can just take all the money, and dole it out to their political buddies.  The biggest drug dealer since colonial times, is the government (who makes money thru taxes on it).  So yes, a debit card, that only I have access to would be fine ... but I don't trust any bank, business or government with anything of mine.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

 

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