5 Atheist Arguments Which Aren't Helping Anyone

[TomFoolery]

Lots of grandiose claims with little or no backing - assumptions and opinions masquerading as objective fact. 

A lot of pseudoscience does this: they use sciencey sounding words and a scientific-like approach to reach a conclusion. Often the conclusions are even logically sound based on the evidence presented and the method used to arrive at such a conclusion. It's just that the problem is that the premise is total shit. The premise is always the problem.

I noticed this during an argument on abortion last weekend wherein a girl pointed out that since nothing happens without God, all pregnancies happen for a reason. Since all pregnancies happen for a reason, all babies conceived have a purpose in God's plan, and aborting them is tantamount to murder. If all of that were true, I would agree. The problem is I can't get behind the first sentence and without it, the rest of it kind of falls apart. I think it's a pretty key reason opinions on abortion remained pretty divided: we're all playing the same game on different playing fields and telling the other side they're stupid because they showed up to the wrong venue.

[josephpalazzo]

You are dealing with some of the most insecure and fear mongering people.  Basic common sense is anathema to them. They'll believe in the most ridiculous idea to cover up their flaws. Some will even use that to satisfy their power urges. For most of them, truth is the first casualty. So you get religious people who are harmless as a butterfly, and stinging dangerous as a scorpion.

[Baruch]

You are dealing with some of the most insecure and fear mongering people.  Basic common sense is anathema to them. They'll believe in the most ridiculous idea to cover up their flaws. Some will even use that to satisfy their power urges. For most of them, truth is the first casualty. So you get religious people who are harmless as a butterfly, and stinging dangerous as a scorpion.

Truth is the first casualty of war.  And life is conflicting, a life and death war.

[Hydra009]

Daylight Atheism chimes in.  He makes some excellent points, imo.

[Baruch]

TomFoolery - about abortion vs G-d's will.  The assumption is that if G-d were real, that G-d isn't the dick G-d is in the Book of Job.  G-d's plan may involve both the conception of a child, and the subsequent miscarriage or deliberate abortion of that child.  Or even infanticide of baby girls like in ancient Arabia before Muhammad.  Given that in my experience, G-d is a dick ... I see no reason to rely on whatever G-d's plan might be.

[TomFoolery]

Daylight Atheism chimes in.  He makes some excellent points, imo.

I feel like the author of this article has a real axe to grind, as if he's suggesting the author of the Cracked article is saying it's wrong to criticize religion or the religious. I think the Cracked article is simply laying out reasons why certain arguments just don't work, not that the arguments themselves are bad or use poor logic.

I myself tend to agree. You can't reason with crazy. All you can do is cope.

[Baruch]

I feel like the author of this article has a real axe to grind, as if he's suggesting the author of the Cracked article is saying it's wrong to criticize religion or the religious. I think the Cracked article is simply laying out reasons why certain arguments just don't work, not that the arguments themselves are bad or use poor logic.

I myself tend to agree. You can't reason with crazy. All you can do is cope.

That is why I take rationalism with a grain of salt ... the world is crazy, and I am doing the best I can to cope.

[gentle_dissident]

You can't reason with crazy. All you can do is cope.

I find that I can plant seeds of change and healing. Perhaps it's my technique.

[doorknob]

except for the preaching I disagree with every thing this article says.

This article is basically telling atheist to shut the fuck up. Just about anything you do to support atheism will offend some one. There for I see nothing wrong with being in your face as much as Christians are. Religions need to die! they are not a crutch they are a brain washing! a graffiti of the mind!

anything that holds back or gets in the way of science gets no respect from me.

[Unbeliever]

Maybe people should be assigned remedial "adulthood" ... people are too easily "hurt" and have no sense of humor.

Perhaps some genetic techniques could enable people to grow thicker skins?

[Solomon Zorn]

It’s true that most people won’t change their minds after hearing a single argument, however persuasive. Human psychology just isn’t that malleable. But that doesn’t mean that atheist argumentation is pointless. It just means we need to be realistic about what we hope to accomplish. I’ve used the “wind and water” analogy for this: minds are changed slowly, a little bit at a time, like erosion wearing away a stone. You can’t convince someone who’s determined not to be convinced, but you can plant a seed of doubt or questioning that may one day sprout and grow in surprising ways. And even about deeply held faith, people do sometimes change their minds, as the many, many, many, many testimonials from former believers will bear witness.

I agree with this. Everybody has doubts, to some degree. The Christian may not admit it, but if you aren't a dick about it, you might spark something that leads to a later question. That's how I see civil discussions with Christians. If they are going to preach at me though, then the gloves come off.

[gentle_dissident]

Religions need to die! they are not a crutch they are a brain washing! a graffiti of the mind!

It's the same with commercialism, capitalism, and politics. People consider it natural to navigate these fields. These are false and degrading ways to deal with the problem of awareness. They are profitable tools designed to keep the peasants away from the kings.

[widdershins]

I think the article is pretty pointless.  For the most part, by the time we're using those arguments it's already a shit-throwing contest anyway.  Personally, I would talk reasonably to a reasonable theist.  I would LOVE to someday have an intelligent conversation with one.  I keep trying.  But once they say something utterly moronic, such as any sentence which ends with the words, "...just a theory", there is really no point in trying to convince them of anything.  You can show a Jehovah's Witness all the facts in the world, you can introduce him to every single geneticist, anthropologist and biologist alive and have them, personally, tell him their beliefs on evolution, you can give him pen and paper to track how many agree, how many disagree and how many think there is some debate raging among scientists about whether it's true, give them a super computer to tally the results and they will STILL walk away believing that a majority of scientists doubt evolution and there's a huge debate in science right now over whether it's true or not.  When faced with that kind of single-mindlessness the only point in the debate is turning their faces red.

[gentle_dissident]

I find that I can plant seeds of change and healing. Perhaps it's my technique.

Fixed that for me.

[Unbeliever]

It's the same with commercialism, capitalism, and politics. People consider it natural to navigate these fields. These are false and degrading ways to deal with the problem of awareness. They are profitable tools designed to keep the peasants away from the kings.

Yeah, as Napoleon said, religion is the only thing that keeps the poor from murdering the rich.