Vote for who you actually want

[Mermaid]

I honestly  don't care at this point, this country is fucked if we don't get someone like bernie as our president, so even if the odds of him winning are 10 percent I'm in favor of him, I'm fucking sick and tired of pseudo liberals and crazy right wing psychopaths being given power, it's sickening.

You honestly don't care? Really?

[Nonsensei]

I don't like any of them.

Trump is a lunatic, and his followers are essentially screaming hail the fuhrer at his rallies. In addition, he does not have what it takes to be a president that is worthy of this country. Insane beliefs (or professed beliefs) aside, the man has experience in business and the skill simply doesn't translate over to government as well as people might think. He won't always be able to get what he wants, government functions on compromise. Trump strikes me as someone who has hardly ever been denied anything. People mistake this self-assurance as force of personality, but it isn't. Its just belligerence in the white house and thats never good for us.

Hillary cannot be trusted. Shes a chamelion wearing the skin of a slightly disapproving mother in law that you can never satisfy. I'm almost certain she has lied about important things that matter to people and I absolutely hate the kind of candidate she has allowed herself to become. Nothing but canned responses and turning with the tide. If america never has another president like her it will be too soon.

I don't hate Sanders as much as the other two because I don't know much about him. I know hes been accused of being an unabashed socialist. I don't think he can win, but more importantly I don't think he can accomplish any of his goals even if he does win.

So who do I vote for?

[FaithIsFilth]

There are lies and then there are lies. Lies because you want to make yourself look good (Hillary and landing at a Bosnia trip) are despicable, but lies that result in thousands of innocent death (Bush and the WMD's to invade Iraq) are lies on a totally different scale.

Hillary would have went to war with Iraq if she were President at the time, and you know it. She voted for the war and she is on tape saying Iraq is a good business opportunity.

[josephpalazzo]

Hillary would have went to war with Iraq if she were President at the time, and you know it. She voted for the war and she is on tape saying Iraq is a good business opportunity.

Huh, no. Iraq 2 is a continuation of Iraq 1, which was unfinished business by Rumsfeld, Cheney and Colin Powell in 1991, as it was disrupted by Bush 1 losing unexpectedly the election in 1992. When Bush 2 came to power in 2000, these three got back into the game, and it was Iraq, Iraq from day 1 in Bush 2 administration.  Now Hillary did vote for the war as a senator, and I think she knows it was a mistake, even though she's reluctant to acknowledge it. But would have initiated that war?!? No way.

[Hydra009]

I don't hate Sanders as much as the other two because I don't know much about him. I know hes been accused of being an unabashed socialist. I don't think he can win, but more importantly I don't think he can accomplish any of his goals even if he does win.

He almost certainly wouldn't be able to get much accomplished.  Congress's stonewalling during Obama's presidency would be twice as bad if Sanders takes office.  But (hopefully) what it would do is set the agenda more towards wealth inequality and corporate malfeasance, laying the groundwork for future progress in that area.  He would also reliably keep the US away from foreign entanglements, which is desirable at this time.  And most importantly, he would shut out the Republicans from office for 4 years and perhaps appoint new Supreme Court members.

It's not ideal, but it's the best play for what is essentially a dead man's hand.  Clinton's presidency probably wouldn't be drastically different, though it's difficult to gauge given her policy reversals.  Imho, she wants to be president more than she wants to act as president, which could cause problems down the road.

[FaithIsFilth]

Huh, no. Iraq 2 is a continuation of Iraq 1, which was unfinished business by Rumsfeld, Cheney and Colin Powell in 1991, as it was disrupted by Bush 1 losing unexpectedly the election in 1992. When Bush 2 came to power in 2000, these three got back into the game, and it was Iraq, Iraq from day 1 in Bush 2 administration.  Now Hillary did vote for the war as a senator, and I think she knows it was a mistake, even though she's reluctant to acknowledge it. But would have initiated that war?!? No way.

No way? Hillary has given people no reason to believe she's any different than Bush on foreign policy. Obama is the same as Bush, and Clinton's rhetoric concerning war is even worse than his. Clinton is talking about shooting down Russian planes for non-defensive reasons and you think she's above invading Iraq? The war in Iraq would have gone ahead with Clinton or Gore. The President doesn't get to just do whatever they want. The President has people to answer to. The President is not the only one setting the agenda. The people the President answers to wanted war in Iraq. The support was there for war. There was no way any President was going to let 9/11 go to waste and not go into Iraq. Look at Obama. He seemed anti-war, but got in and is a Bush clone on foreign policy.

[Jannabear]

If we don't get a socialist president quality of life for many americans is going to continue to be complete shit, no more of these pseudo liberals (obama) and retarded republicans (Every republican)

[gentle_dissident]

Why can't America have sane, mature, honest, and caring leaders? Is it because they would not reflect the citizenry?

[Baruch]

Why can't America have sane, mature, honest, and caring leaders? Is it because they would not reflect the citizenry?

You got it.  Sheep dip, all the way down ;-)

[drunkenshoe]

The candidates aren't sane people. They're sociopaths.

Isn't that a job requirement for politicians? I am serious, not just ranting. Anyone with scruples about lying in any level, wouldn't imagine to have a career of the sort.

How much of a chance a really honest person have in winning an election anywhere, esp. in somewhere like the USA. There is too much to exploit.

[josephpalazzo]

No way? Hillary has given people no reason to believe she's any different than Bush on foreign policy. Obama is the same as Bush, and Clinton's rhetoric concerning war is even worse than his. Clinton is talking about shooting down Russian planes for non-defensive reasons and you think she's above invading Iraq? The war in Iraq would have gone ahead with Clinton or Gore. The President doesn't get to just do whatever they want. The President has people to answer to. The President is not the only one setting the agenda. The people the President answers to wanted war in Iraq. The support was there for war. There was no way any President was going to let 9/11 go to waste and not go into Iraq. Look at Obama. He seemed anti-war, but got in and is a Bush clone on foreign policy.

Supporting a war and initiating one are two different things. In regard to Obama: he retreated from both Iraq and Afghanistan. In Libya, he gave some support, and in Syria, after threatening, he backed away. I doubt it very much that Hillary, had she been president instead of Obama, would have done anything different.

[LoriPinkAngel]

Why can't America have sane, mature, honest, and caring leaders? Is it because they would not reflect the citizenry?

This unfortunately seems to be true.  I see so many vicious, uncaring posts from people I thought were decent.  Too many sharings of Trump memes from people who should know better.

[NeoLogic26]

You're a coward because you don't stand up for the candidate who you think is more qualified and intelligent.

On this we completely agree.  I wouldn't go so far as to endorse Sanders and I wonder if some of the things he wants to do are even possible, but your sentiment is right on the money.  I can handle my candidate not winning, I'm fine with that. What is more important to me is that I can be proud of my vote and back up my decision and not feel like I need a shower after returning from the polls.  So far, I haven't heard an argument from anyone in the "lesser of two evils camp" that wasn't some form of "this is the way it is and that's why it needs to be that way", so I remain unconvinced that voting with conviction is the wrong course of action.

[Mermaid]

Why can't America have sane, mature, honest, and caring leaders? Is it because they would not reflect the citizenry?

We currently have one.

[Jannabear]

We currently have one.

Except the fact that he's pretty much the black version of bush and is a complete fucking pussy.