Oregon Ranchers Occupy Federal Building For Some Reason Or Other

[SGOS]

Grazing rights?  The government allows private ranchers access to public land for grazing, but they have to follow rules.  The land belongs to the government. You and I can use it, but rules must be followed, although the rules are minimal and common sense.  You can't do whatever you want. 

There is an attitude in the West that public lands actually belong to the locals, and that's true, sort of, because they are the ones that use it most.  People like loggers, ranchers, and miners make their living off of it, but it's not like you own title to the land.  There is also pressure to turn over Federal land to local and state governments, and ultimately to outright privatize it.  Some people like the Bundys want to own it so bad, they become squatters believing it's for their own private use because of family tradition or something similar to, "We've been using that land for the last 100 years, so it's ours." 

There may be arguments for privatization, and Republicans often call for it, but then people like the Bundys would become sole administrators of places like your favorite hiking and bird watching areas.  In the Western forests, you can easily see the difference between Federal land and Corporate land.  Federal land is identified by hundreds of 40 acre clearcuts.  On private lands, the trees have simply been removed with mile long clearcut edges defining the exact boundary of ownerships between private and Federal.  While the Feds have hardly been great stewards and made an awful mess of the land, private corporations make the Feds look like tree hugging conservationists.

[Mike Cl]

Well then, guess you don't like the Crimson Tide ;-)  Never understood why anyone wanted red laundry detergent ;-)

The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. â€" Albert Camus

I am not fond of anything from Alabama--well, Willie Mays and Willie McCovey maybe. :) 

[Mermaid]

Slap an American flag patch on your camos and an American flag flying above  you, and- oh wait. You also have to be white.

Yes. Then you will be called "militia". If you are African American, you will be called "thugs".

[stromboli]

I grew up with people just like this. I guarantee every outraged, fist shaking statement is tinged with the red white and blue of patriotism that echoes all the way back to the founding fathers. Righteous indignation is a scary thing when there are guns involved. 

[TomFoolery]

I grew up with people just like this. I guarantee every outraged, fist shaking statement is tinged with the red white and blue of patriotism that echoes all the way back to the founding fathers. Righteous indignation is a scary thing when there are guns involved.

I just feel like, if the government really was the authoritarian dictatorship these militia weirdos believe it to be, they'd already be either dead or in prison, instead of occupying public land.

The fact that the leaders haven't been dragged out naked in public, beaten, drawn, and quartered and the rest of the lot wasn't wheeled off into backbreaking labor in Alaska kind of makes their complaint seem petty.

[aitm]

IF there is some truth to their argument, that the gov changed the rules and is sending these people to jail after they already served their sentenced time, then maybe We are on the wrong side.

[stromboli]

Some more info:

it turns out the building they are occupying was built under FDR's CCC program back in the 30's. Employed some 150 local people and gave them an income during the depression. The land that they are complaining about-BLM land- was legally purchased from ranchers some time after that. Fees are minimal for usage, and BLM range land is under the same management criteria as wilderness.

Apparently they think, like Cliven Bundy, that the land is theirs to use as they see fit, regardless of ownership. Cliven Bundy, btw, is a millionaire. None of these people are poor. A rancher anywhere close to worth his shit can turn a pretty good profit on his stock. These people aren't driving beat up old Chevy trucks.

[aitm]

If what I read is correct, the father/son were sentenced and served then a judge decided they did not serve long enough….that sounds awfully screwy to me.

[Hydra009]

If what I read is correct, the father/son were sentenced and served then a judge decided they did not serve long enough….that sounds awfully screwy to me.

But wouldn't that violate double jeopardy?  At any rate, that seems like something the state supreme court should have to deal with, not the sheriff's office.

[PopeyesPappy]

But wouldn't that violate double jeopardy?  At any rate, that seems like something the state supreme court should have to deal with, not the sheriff's office.

It isn't double jeopardy. Arson on federal lands carries a five year minimum sentence. The Hammonds argued during the original sentencing the five year minimum was unconstitutional. The trial court agreed and imposed a lesser sentence. The prosecutor appealed that decision, and the Ninth Circuit Court upheld the federal law with the reasoning that a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense given the seriousness of arson.  They vacated the original unlawful sentence and ordered they be re-sentenced in accordance with the law. SCOTUS rejected the Hammonds' petitions for certiorari effectively agreeing with the appeals court's decision.

[Hydra009]

Ah, okay.  Thanks for the explanation.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

I'm sure any important documents there have digital copies, and we have predator drones....just sayin.

[josephpalazzo]

Malheur National Wildlife Refuge !?!? Malheur is French for bad luck.

WTF.

[Solomon Zorn]

If what I read is correct, the father/son were sentenced and served then a judge decided they did not serve long enough….that sounds awfully screwy to me.

Their sentences were, in my opinion, excessive (mandatory sentencing often is). But that's not what the occupation is really about. The Hammonds have disavowed Bundy. In fact the Hammonds are cooperating with authorities.

[PopeyesPappy]

Their sentences were, in my opinion, excessive (mandatory sentencing often is).

The guy that almost died in the fire they set would probably disagree.