Author Topic: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History  (Read 1432 times)

Offline Hijiri Byakuren (OP)

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Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« on: December 04, 2015, 09:12:51 AM »
I figure we need a break from the serious discussions, so here's something that could be fun. In this tournament, you will be making the case that your chosen military force is the best that history has ever seen. To sign up, simply list the following:
  • Country of Origin
  • Time Period
  • Main Opponents
Up to 8 people may sign up. If there's a lot of interest, maybe we'll do 16 next time.

The debate will last for 3 rounds, and will be conducted as follows:
  • Judges are picked from among volunteers. Each debater gets to pick one judge, and the debate moderator picks a third.
  • Each side makes an "opener" stating their respective positions on the issue.
  • The first rebuttal: each side gets a chance to refute their opponent's opener. (Round 1 ends here.)
  • The second rebuttal: each side gets a chance to refute their opponent's first rebuttal. (Round 2 ends here.)
  • The third rebuttal: each side gets a chance to refute their opponent's second rebuttal.
  • The judges each issue a vote, stating three reasons why they favored one debater over the other. (Complete sentences, please. :P) The winner is determined by simple majority.
Before and during the debate, the debate moderator may ask that specific information and/or clarifications be included in a debater's next post.

The debaters will consider and address the following:
  • How your chosen military measured up to its contemporaries. The modern US army doesn't win against the Pre-Marian Roman legions just because it has guns and tanks.
  • How the military performed under pressure. An untested army with better equipment can still be defeated by hardened veterans with armament that is "good enough."
  • How the leadership (both military and civilian) utilized the forces at their disposal. WW1 European armies had fantastic equipment and discipline, but their leaders left much to be desired.
Any other topics are left to the debaters' own discretion.

I will list participants here as they sign up. Let's do this shit!

Moderator
Volunteer Judges
  • Hijiri Byakuren
Debaters
  • TomFoolery (Rome, 88bce-284ce)
  • GrinningYMIR (USA, 1941ce-1945ce)
  • Gerard (Dutch Republic, 1584-1713)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 07:31:59 PM by Hijiri Byakuren »

Offline GrinningYMIR

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2015, 09:20:20 AM »
Can I do an earlier version of a said military and not its current?
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Offline TomFoolery

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2015, 09:36:54 AM »
I figure we need a break from the serious discussions, so here's something that could be fun. In this tournament, you will be making the case that your chosen military force is the best that history has ever seen.

Is it contingent on a specific leader, or simply an army over the course of its lifetime? Also when you say army, are you restricting it to only ground forces, or should naval and aerial forces be considered as well?

I am interested and I have three options, but they're dependent on those parameters.
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

Offline Hijiri Byakuren (OP)

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Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2015, 09:46:54 AM »
Can I do an earlier version of a said military and not its current?
Yes, that's why I said to specify a time period. If you specified a long enough period (such as the German military over the course of WW2), then I suppose you could include innovation as one of its strengths. The length of time must be within reason, of course.

Is it contingent on a specific leader, or simply an army over the course of its lifetime? Also when you say army, are you restricting it to only ground forces, or should naval and aerial forces be considered as well?
It is not contingent on a specific leader, but your opponent can pick on both the best and the worst your military's leadership has to offer. So once you pick a time period, you will be addressing the military's lifetime within that period.

And yes, this will include aerial and naval forces as appropriate to the time period. I was trying to be careful and say "military" to avoid this confusion. :lol:

Offline TomFoolery

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2015, 10:03:17 AM »
Country of OriginRoman Army
Time Period Late Republic and Imperial: ~88BC to 284AD
Main Opponents Gauls, Civil Wars of the First and Second Triumvirate, Britains, Judea, and Persians
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

Offline Hijiri Byakuren (OP)

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Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2015, 10:12:16 AM »
Country of OriginRoman Army
Time Period Late Republic and Imperial: ~88BC to 284AD
Main Opponents Gauls, Civil Wars of the First and Second Triumvirate, Britains, Judea, and Persians

Added.

Offline GrinningYMIR

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2015, 03:49:41 PM »
US military: 1941-1945

Main opponents: Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Facist Italy. Romania, Finland, Bulgaria.

Origin: USA


I could argue Germany as well from 1939-1942 if allowed

"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2015, 05:15:29 PM »
Not in your tournament, but you might want to look at Genghis Khan. Conquered a huge amount of territory in just his lifetime.

Offline TomFoolery

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2015, 05:45:46 PM »
Not in your tournament, but you might want to look at Genghis Khan. Conquered a huge amount of territory in just his lifetime.

It would have been a toss up for me between the Mongols, Huns, and the Greeks under Alexander but sadly those armies were only truly great because of their leadership. Once Genghis, Attila, and Alexander were dead, they really lost stride.
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

Offline Hijiri Byakuren (OP)

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Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2015, 06:59:17 PM »
US military: 1941-1945

Main opponents: Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Facist Italy. Romania, Finland, Bulgaria.

Origin: USA
Added.

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2015, 07:23:27 PM »
Navy of the Dutch Republic
Spain, France, England
1584-1713
The Historical Atlas of Europe
But as man exists in nature, I am not authorized to say that his formation, is above the power of nature.
Paul Henri Thiry Baron d' Holbach, (1723-1789)

Offline aitm

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2015, 07:32:30 PM »
Not in your tournament, but you might want to look at Genghis Khan. Conquered a huge amount of territory in just his lifetime.
I am a huge fan of Khan. But not enough to be able to hold my own against historians.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Hijiri Byakuren (OP)

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Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2015, 07:35:36 PM »
Navy of the Dutch Republic
Spain, France, England
1584-1713
Added. Although your opponent(s) will probably confront you on the Dutch Republic's army as well, so be prepared to talk about that.

Okay, so we just need 5 more debaters, a moderator, and at least two more volunteers for the judge pool.

Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2015, 05:33:48 AM »
How much time will you be giving for each round?

Offline Hijiri Byakuren (OP)

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Re: Debate Tournament Sign-Ups: Best Military In History
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2015, 08:30:22 AM »
How much time will you be giving for each round?
I'll probably give debaters a 48-hour window to respond to one another following each post. It'll probably take not more than a week per round. Round 1 might take two weeks if people are being really poky.