Democracy, don't like it and think it is stupid

Started by CloneKai, November 28, 2015, 07:08:43 PM

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Hydra009

Quote from: TomFoolery on December 01, 2015, 06:56:52 PM
You can still have an effective democracy without universal suffrage. There are political theories that assert democracy would be better off by taking voting away from people who don't want it or requiring people to earn their vote.

TomFoolery

Quote from: Hydra009 on December 02, 2015, 05:38:14 AM


I was afraid of going full circle. Among various veterans groups that I'm on, this idea gets brought up about once every five minutes after someone gets mad at something currently going on in politics. The idea that only veterans would get to vote is scarier than letting children vote. They say no one prays for peace more than a soldier: not true. Peace puts a soldier out of a job and very few people would gladly vote themselves out of a job.

Of course the parameters in the novel are a little different, as no one can be denied the right to perform federal service regardless of disability. I hate it when veterans act like the only way to fully support your country is to serve it by taking up arms. It's a minority of the population medically qualified to serve in the military in the first place. I was initially denied and had to get a waiver because I have poor eyesight (that corrects to 20/20 with glasses). So I feel like if someone tells me that I should only get to vote if I serve in the military, then for me to try to join the military only to be refused because I wear thicker glasses than most, that's essentially telling me I can't vote because my vision sucks. Imagine what that would be like for people in wheelchairs, people with diabetes, people with ADHD, people who were only born with one testicle... <-- yeah, you can get disqualified for that.

It truly is a sad state of affairs that so many people fought so hard for so long to get the right to vote for so few people to use it today. But one of my favorite parts about the process is that on election day, it doesn't matter if you're Donald J. Trump or Boxcar Willy who fought a dog for half a sandwich found in a dumpster, on that one day, both possess the same amount of power in that their votes count equally.
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

SGOS

Quote from: CloneKai on November 29, 2015, 03:34:10 AM
i definitely don't remember typing this.
forget about this please  :pray:

Sorry, this is one of those things, I can't forget, even if I wanted to.  Not that marrying you cousin upsets me.  It actually doesn't.

SGOS

Any form of government can and probably will be corrupted.

widdershins

Eventually all governments will be dictatorships run by our beloved robot overlords.  Realistically, it's the only way we could ever have a perfect government.
This sentence is a lie...

Baruch

The AI snake oil salesman and a robot in every garage salesmen are hard at work.  Already some idiot salesman is proclaiming how using AI to decide who to hire is so much better than using fallible humans ;-)  Sucker born every minute!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: widdershins on December 02, 2015, 01:35:07 PM
Eventually all governments will be dictatorships run by our beloved robot overlords.  Realistically, it's the only way we could ever have a perfect government.
At least until we pour our brains into computers, and the cycle begins again due to our flawed programming.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

widdershins

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on December 02, 2015, 07:50:08 PM
At least until we pour our brains into computers, and the cycle begins again due to our flawed programming.
So, you're thinking Cybermen?  What could possibly go wrong?
This sentence is a lie...

Hijiri Byakuren

Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

Sylar

Quote from: CloneKai on December 01, 2015, 06:40:29 PM
Both.
All people having equal vote is something that i have problem with. there are people who are interested in politics and others who are not (thus not equally aware), their vote shouldn't be equal. and then we have smart people and dumb people, they shouldn't have equal vote either. and then there are poeple who believe in fairy tales.

and sometimes sacrifices have to be made by the voting population for something that might benefit their grandchildren. i don't think democracy delivers very well then either.

Eh, people vote for different reasons. A 60 year old won't be voting for the same reasons as an 18 year old, even if they both chose the same candidate.

How would you determine who's dumb and who's smart? Or whether people care enough (or are informed enough) or not? Would you take a person's vote away if they're voting for Bernie Sanders because of his views on marijuana only? Technically, they are not considering his social, economic, foreign policy, etc. views and thus are not informed enough.

Quote from: CloneKai on December 01, 2015, 06:40:29 PMpolitician can make whatever decisions they want, and still won't get punished for it. so its simply easier to gain money or votes or whatever rather than try do something that will benefit people.

In the US, voters hold politicians accountable by not electing them if they fail on their campaign promises. That much is true in theory. In practice, that may not always be the case.
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde

Baruch

American voters are lazy, ignorant and fickle, except when reelecting incumbents ;-)

As a 60 year old, I vote for different reasons now I did when I was 20.  I am different and the world is different.

In answer to your question, who is dumb ... I am smart, everyone else is dumb.  This is the view of every American.  This is what makes us so "exceptional" that the US must exist to boss the rest of the world around.

The idea of democracy isn't that it is smart ... it isn't.  The idea is to gain a little stability (against revolution) and a little buy-in (vs dictatorship) than we would have otherwise.  Essentially a con, but for good reasons.  The 99% really are superfluous to us 1% folks.  The alternative is to get the 99% to kill each other off, except for the necessary butlers, maids, chauffeurs and pool boys.  What is smart is being part of the 1% ... we not only have more money and are smarter, but we are more beautiful and attractive in every way.  Eat your 99% hearts out, losers.  How do I know I am part of the 1% ... because relative to the whole human population, I actually am.  We got this the old fashioned way ... we are criminals.  Comparing to my neighbors is a false scale.  If I lived in Hollywood, then I wouldn't be exceptional unless I was a multi-millionaire.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: Baruch on December 05, 2015, 09:12:20 AMAs a 60 year old
I knew you were older than me, but the way you conduct yourself I would have pegged you for 40 at most. So whatever's keeping your mind sharp, keep doing it and teach us your secrets.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

Baruch

More reading ... less TV.  Unless it is a YouTube documentary.  I was an officially measured genius when I entered first grade ... so it is better to start high and work your way down, than start low and work your way lower ;-)  The ability to read and write and cipher really are the most important skills you can have.  That and boundless curiosity ... but then I am part cat.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Aletheia

We have a democracy for now because a less corruptible government isn't in existence yet. Personally, I can understand a voter not necessarily being informed, but I firmly believe a politician should be well informed about the issues they are discussing. Furthermore, their evidence need to be cited from reputable and if possible, peer-reviewed sources. Lastly, a politician is a secular government official, so they should be expected to not mention religion, especially when name-dropping a religion to win over votes.

Oh, and Congress shall be unable to vote for their own wages. All politicians should have a base salary, which improves according to the positive impact they've had on economy, community, and environment within the scope of their level of authority. Those who fail to do so shall be demoted or removed from office at the voters' discretion.

It won't fix everything, but it's a start.
Quote from: Jakenessif you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.