Rant of the day - fake "nice guys" and why they're despised by women

[Ace101]

There's a lot of "tropes" that get my ire, from welfare fraudsters, to Christian creationists. One I'll discuss today is the fake "nice guys" since they seem to be one of the ones most universally despised by men and women alike, and aren't exclusive to race, religion, or ethnicity.

The fake "nice guy" is kind of guy who hasn't even seen many women (other than in .jpeg or .png format), and in some cases may have had more restraining orders than he has had dates.

He talks insincerely (usually online rather than in person) about "respecting women, never hitting women, etc" despite this not coming from sound personal experience at all, but rather a simple repetition of the most cliche and "no brainier" ethical axioms out there  - with the sole internet of "looking good" (or less bad that is) rather than saying anything actually profound or sincere.

He's kind of like the overeducated 27-year old, virginal Catholic Priest giving couples of 20 years "marriage advice". Or like a person who thinks that saying "thou shalt not kill!" is some type of morally profound statement that he's the first to discover (as opposed to a no brainer), despite him having put more thought into what female video game character to masturbate to than anything genuinely philosophical.
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The reason that even Chris Brown and Charles Manson can get more poon than this type of guy is because at least they're up-front about who they are, while the fake nice guy isn't; kind of like the difference between Joe Blow cheating on his wife, and Ted Haggart cheating on his wife (with a man, no less).

(Not to mention even the average domestic abusing, wife beater wearing trailer park residents still have less of a track record of committing mass murders - Elliot Rogers being an example).

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In summary, women and men don't trust "fake nice" guys for the same reason that people don't trust Catholic Priests to babysit their children, or Jared Fogle to offer their kids free sandwiches. A person who's obviously trying to hard to "look" nice  ends up looking more like they have something to hide; while people who are genuinely nice don't give a flip whether or not someone on 4chan hears them talk about how much they supposedly "respect women" Even a wolf is less scary when it's out in the open than when you can see a hint of the fur sticking out from under the sheep's clothing. :)

[TomFoolery]

To me, the "nice guy" claim sometimes comes across as entitled, so it's not necessarily that they aren't upfront about who they are, but they think women should go out with them because they don't beat women. Sorry, but if your only qualification as boyfriend material is that you've never hit a woman, maybe it's more correct to say that you're a "non-violent guy" and not a "nice guy." You can think domestic violence is bad and still be a bad person, or boring, or lazy, or selfish, or smelly, or any other number of qualities that still turns most people off.

[Ace101]

To me, the "nice guy" claim sometimes comes across as entitled, so it's not necessarily that they aren't upfront about who they are, but they think women should go out with them because they don't beat women. Sorry, but if your only qualification as boyfriend material is that you've never hit a woman, maybe it's more correct to say that you're a "non-violent guy" and not a "nice guy." You can think domestic violence is bad and still be a bad person, or boring, or lazy, or selfish, or smelly, or any other number of qualities that still turns most people off.

Agreed there, I think a lot of it does indeed come from an "entitlement" mindset and does in some ways ironically mirror with religious fundamentalist cultures where male "entitlement" versus merit is emphasized.

Thinking that you're entitled to a great woman just because you've "never beat up a woman" is kind of like thinking that you're entitled to a Harvard scholarship because you "didn't drop out of high school".

(The same is true with the sexes in reverse, though I don't see women talking about how "nice" they are as often as I do guys - usually entitled women base their entitlement on how "hot" they think they are, even when they're not very attractive to begin with).

[TomFoolery]

Not-too-fat, non-violent, non-smoker seeking attractive, intelligent, funny, fit, charming, artistic, athletic free spirit who can cook and hunt, loves to dance, can laugh at herself, doesn't mind getting dirty but can clean up and rock a sexy little black dress.

[JBCuzISaidSo]

Now see, I view this type of "nice guy", as using that as an pre-excuse for when they get shot down later. "I guess she doesn't like nice guys!", "Nice guys finish last!", etc, etc.

So either they're completely scared to shit of that rejection and this is easier, or they believe themselves that they are super wicked so very kind and that girl likes the abuse she'll of course get with that bad boy she picked or will pick soon. Or both.

There are worse things to say aloud than "don't hit women", but if that woman is on top of your head with a screwdriver to your jugular, decommission that bitch.

[GSOgymrat]

In summary, women and men don't trust "fake nice" guys for the same reason that people don't trust Catholic Priests to babysit their children, or Jared Fogle to offer their kids free sandwiches. A person who's obviously trying to hard to "look" nice  ends up looking more like they have something to hide; while people who are genuinely nice don't give a flip whether or not someone on 4chan hears them talk about how much they supposedly "respect women" Even a wolf is less scary when it's out in the open than when you can see a hint of the fur sticking out from under the sheep's clothing. :)

[Baruch]

Now see, I view this type of "nice guy", as using that as an pre-excuse for when they get shot down later. "I guess she doesn't like nice guys!", "Nice guys finish last!", etc, etc.

So either they're completely scared to shit of that rejection and this is easier, or they believe themselves that they are super wicked so very kind and that girl likes the abuse she'll of course get with that bad boy she picked or will pick soon. Or both.

There are worse things to say aloud than "don't hit women", but if that woman is on top of your head with a screwdriver to your jugular, decommission that bitch.

Excellent, getting to the motivation for things.  I am so glad I am over the fear of rejection!  There is at least a mythology, that women are attracted to bad boys ... for psychotic reasons.  Is that yet another "blaming the victim"?  Don't know.  At least if you are a nice guy who finishes last ... you have avoided yet another tiresome relationship ... the kind where both parties expect to get the most of out it, while putting the least effort into it.  I suspect attraction is just irrational, and rationalizing about it just makes things worse ... she is either into you or not.  If not, move on already.

[SGOS]

There is at least a mythology, that women are attracted to bad boys

I think it's more than a myth.  But as long as we don't generalize (as in "all women are into bad boys"), I've seen the phenomenon enough times to feel safe that there is a actual dynamic taking place.  It might be with just certain women, or certain women during a phase in their lives, or even women who could obviously make better choices.

And why shouldn't this be true?  Why are men attracted to women who aren't good for them?  I've wondered if this could just be an matter of being attracted to an exciting partner?  If not outright danger, many people are drawn to chaos, and as much as they don't like it, they seem to crave it.

In addition to personal observation, which may not be worth much, I've also read articles about it, which I admit could have deserved more research, but it's not like research was totally missing either.  One such article was pointed out by a woman I intellectually admired very much.  She pointed it out because it resonated with her. It included a possible genetic explanation related to evolutionary survival, not necessarily for women themselves, but for their offspring.

I dunno about the whys and wherefores, but I'm convinced that the behavior exists in society.  I neither condone or judge it.  I just think it's very interesting.  Different strokes for different folks, but I don't think it's nothing more than some losers explanation for why he can't get laid.

Don't know.  At least if you are a nice guy who finishes last ... you have avoided yet another tiresome relationship ... the kind where both parties expect to get the most of out it, while putting the least effort into it.

LOL.  The sliver lining in the dark cloud.  That's the thing about relationships.  If you miss out on one, it may have been a great experience, or your worst nightmare.  Relationships aren't all fun and no work.

I suspect attraction is just irrational, and rationalizing about it just makes things worse ... she is either into you or not.  If not, move on already.

I like the part about, "move on already."  It's the mature thing to do.

[FinalSomnia]

I know of one guy who claims he is a "nice guy" and he constantly posts memes on Facebook about being one and also about being "friendzoned." Now, I've known him for years, and I can say this... He's socially awkward and terribly creepy when it comes to women. It isn't that ladies don't like "nice guys," they just don't like guys who are stalky and too passive-aggressive.

[Mermaid]

People in general do not see themselves. I think people (both men and women) who view themselves as "nice" genuinely believe it. Just like everyone thinks they're a good driver.

[GSOgymrat]

I just watched this video and thought of this thread.

https://youtu.be/IBsOu44Tj2E?list=PLwxNMb28XmpcEwc0qydf2jSszQFSht81E

[Baruch]

The feeling of being a young unmarried adult ... while long past, is more easily revived when in a different accent.  Thanks.

Young men, as well as young women ... experience the horns of a dilemma when dating.  What if he says yes?  What if she says no?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

It's kind of like people who say dumb shit like 'I believe children are our future' and expect that to be some profound statement . Hint: Children actually grow up unless they die before they actually do grow up and to make matters worse old people typically die at some point which turns children into those dreaded old people later on.
So .. Just to prove I'm a nice guy I believe that children are our future and it's not nice to beat up elderly women just for shits and giggles.
I'll expect my nice guy plaque in the mail anytime soon.

There's all kinds of fake nice person shit out there and pc, (political correctness) is the shit that drives almost everyone nuts. Some people,  especially right wingers like to make it out as if just being liberal makes everyone into some sort of politically correct ninny.

Hey, it's ok to occasionally be an asshole and not think that you have to take a handful of sleeping pills to be nice once in awhile. 

On the other hand I really don't think it's ok to run around beating up on women unless her name happens to be Sarah Palin or some other right wing blow hard in which case it's perfectly acceptable and I'll expect my nice guy plaque for saying that.

Thank you.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I got to thinking about this a bit. For quite some time I thought that there was no way I would be with a heavy woman who isn't super hawt and blah blah blah  until I meet the love of my life,  Sylvia. She's overweight and not particularly a beauty, but talking to her before we actually meet I realized that we actually got along quite well and at my age I really wasn't in the mood for putting up with someone who thought her looks entitled her to be a bitch on demand.
People get this image in their minds that they could never get along with someone just because of their looks and often go through life getting rejected by women or men and end up thinking that everyone is an asshole for rejecting them when in fact they build up unrealistic expectations of the perfect person for themselves.
I found myself seeing pretty women as bitchy and only wanting that perfect man, but when it came right down to it I wanted someone who I could just get along with who didn't have all kinds of unrealistic expectations.
As Sylvia put it about me I was everything she never even knew she wanted. The same turned out to be true about her for me.
The key, and I'm only really speaking for myself is to find someone you can have a conversation with without the feeling of wanting to slap the shit out of them every time they open their mouths.

[Baruch]

The inner person is more important than the outer person.  Plus as we age, the outer person doesn't last, but the inner person "can" get better over time.