Author Topic: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.  (Read 5863 times)

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2015, 04:37:41 PM »
In the far, far future, when there's very little energy left to do any work, the life of those times may be able to tap into Hell and get an infinite amount of energy to use, forever.

That is, assuming that Hell exists, that it contains infinite energy, and that life can tap into it.

 :think:
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2015, 04:50:30 PM »
Don't forget, Gaad may have a whole multiverse (and how many universes does that contain) to judge. There may even be multiple multiverses! So hard this is to consider without making yourself dizzy!

Oh my God, yeah. I think I'll head for Limbo instead, even though the Vatican has abolished it.

Offline SGOS

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2015, 06:22:28 PM »
If it turns out I've got another self in another part of the multiverse, and it turns out that he's a perfect Christian and one of God's chosen, could this create some kind of paradox?  I wonder if I could switch my report card with his.

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2015, 02:49:29 PM »
Depends if you consider the book literal or allegorical or cherry pick to your liking. I believe there are some verses in Revelations that suggest that only 144,000 get in anyway. But I am sure someone will argue that away as some math error due to goat herders not being known for their math.
That number is not specifically mentioned.  It mentions 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, in, as I recall, truly Biblical fashion, saying "12,000 from this tribe and 12,000 from that tribe", naming all 12.  The math comes out to 144,000, the significance of which depends on your particular belief system.  The Jehovah's Witnesses, for instance, believe that is literally how many will actually get into "Heaven", all born on or before 1933, when their founder and Master of Woo predicted the end of the world (for the...ninth and final time, maybe?).  The rest will be on a remade Earth known as "Paradise Earth".  Why the separation, I'm not sure.  Perhaps Heaven only had room for a finite number of condos or something.  Still, you'd think they might have come up with some sort of time share thing so that everyone could enjoy it for 2 weeks out of the year or something.  What were we talking about?
This sentence is a lie...

Offline SilentFutility

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2015, 04:46:04 PM »
Your mistake was looking for clear, coherent answers in scripture.

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2015, 04:05:38 PM »
Your mistake was looking for clear, coherent answers in scripture.
Well, that clears the whole thing up, lol!
This sentence is a lie...

Offline Baruch

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2015, 07:10:33 PM »
That number is not specifically mentioned.  It mentions 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, in, as I recall, truly Biblical fashion, saying "12,000 from this tribe and 12,000 from that tribe", naming all 12.  The math comes out to 144,000, the significance of which depends on your particular belief system.  The Jehovah's Witnesses, for instance, believe that is literally how many will actually get into "Heaven", all born on or before 1933, when their founder and Master of Woo predicted the end of the world (for the...ninth and final time, maybe?).  The rest will be on a remade Earth known as "Paradise Earth".  Why the separation, I'm not sure.  Perhaps Heaven only had room for a finite number of condos or something.  Still, you'd think they might have come up with some sort of time share thing so that everyone could enjoy it for 2 weeks out of the year or something.  What were we talking about?

The actual description in Revelations of the heavenly city ... is like a giant Borg ship made out of gold ... with lots of impractical gem stones added in ;-)  So yes, it is finite in size.  And if being in G-d's literal presence means that you lose free will ... then it is very Borg indeed.  Resistance is futile!  You will be converted!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't to that.

Offline MilesAbbott

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2015, 01:29:40 AM »
I have searched scripture but I can find no explanation as to how god intends to judge every single person that ever lived on a case by case basis on the glorious Day of Judgement. How long is this process going to take? Can you imagine how long the line will be.? Is it worth fetching a tent and camp outside the day before, to steal a march on everyone else? Will there be refreshments. So many questions. Can anyone answer these issues for me as I am not sleeping well from pondering it all.

Ah, yes...because the impracticality of God judging people in a line bothers you, you assume it is impossible. You giant ignoramus.

God can do anything, including judging 100 trillion people at once. Not that I actually know how the white throne judgement is going to happen, but your satirical assessment is nothing short of idiotic.

Offline Baruch

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2015, 02:18:50 AM »
Ah, yes...because the impracticality of God judging people in a line bothers you, you assume it is impossible. You giant ignoramus.

God can do anything, including judging 100 trillion people at once. Not that I actually know how the white throne judgement is going to happen, but your satirical assessment is nothing short of idiotic.

In spite of being able to do anything ... G-d seems to be remarkably marginal at G-d's job ... if we assume benevolence.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't to that.

Offline Hydra009

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 02:20:54 AM »
In spite of being able to do anything ... G-d seems to be remarkably marginal at G-d's job ... if we assume benevolence.
I blame a lack of prior experience, bad work/life balance, and nepotism tendencies.  :P

Offline SGOS

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2015, 07:58:25 AM »
How is he going to judge 10 trillion people when he can't even stop a tidal wave from wiping out a village of innocents?  And come to think of it, why did he create cancer if he's so benevolent?  Why did he tell us he created the universe in 7 days?  If we stop right there, these claims start to smell a little fishy, don't you think?  If we go further and examine everything he's been reported to do, today's god starts to look like all the rest of the mythological gods that came before it.  Gods are eventually discarded and placed in a category of ancient mythology.  Almost every historical culture has believed in a god of some sort.  Eventually that god is forgotten and yet another god belief takes its place.  Then another culture invents the new "one true god" and assumes it's for real this time (meet the new boss, same as the old boss). 

The extraterrestrials must be laughing.

Offline MilesAbbott

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2015, 11:24:58 AM »
How is he going to judge 10 trillion people when he can't even stop a tidal wave from wiping out a village of innocents?  And come to think of it, why did he create cancer if he's so benevolent?  Why did he tell us he created the universe in 7 days?  If we stop right there, these claims start to smell a little fishy, don't you think?  If we go further and examine everything he's been reported to do, today's god starts to look like all the rest of the mythological gods that came before it.  Gods are eventually discarded and placed in a category of ancient mythology.  Almost every historical culture has believed in a god of some sort.  Eventually that god is forgotten and yet another god belief takes its place.  Then another culture invents the new "one true god" and assumes it's for real this time (meet the new boss, same as the old boss). 

The extraterrestrials must be laughing.

The usual arguments; if God is good, then why is there so much suffering in the world? The answer is, quite simply, that the occurrence of tidal waves wiping out villages isn't random, it is the wrath of God and judgment upon sinners. How do you know that those who die in catastrophes are innocent? I can tell you right now that they aren't. They are guilty of sin, and the Bible tells us the wages of sin is death.

I will say that the children are an exception, and no doubt their deaths are fully tragic. What does the Bible tell us about the deaths of innocents?

Jeremiah 49:12
And this is what the LORD says: "If the innocent must suffer, how much more must you! You will not go unpunished! You must drink this cup of judgment!

Do not forget that Jesus Christ was innocent, yet He suffered a horrific death willingly. So to say that it is unfair, that God hasn't Himself drank the cup, would be wrong.

Tragic deaths of innocents serve a purpose - what that purpose is depends on the situation, but in those like you their deaths serve to blind you and make you question the existence of God. You assume these deaths are in vain, and your unbelief in the afterlife exacerbates your anger. But if, in the end, these innocents are resurrected and reconciled to God, then does that not change the entire picture?

It's good to remember these verses:

Revelation 21:4-5
"...and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

Offline SGOS

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2015, 12:21:58 PM »
The usual arguments; if God is good, then why is there so much suffering in the world?

Yes the usual arguments, but don't get bored.  You will hear them again and again.  Why?  Because no theist has ever answered them adequately. 

Case in point:
The answer is, quite simply, that the occurrence of tidal waves wiping out villages isn't random, it is the wrath of God and judgment upon sinners.

See?  Not adequately answered, unless you think everyone should accept unsupported claims.  How do you know God sends them?  How do you know why he sends them?  The most common causes of tidal waves are earthquakes.

How do you know that those who die in catastrophes are innocent? I can tell you right now that they aren't. They are guilty of sin, and the Bible tells us the wages of sin is death.

Yeah right, original sin.  Another unsupported claim.

Tragic deaths of innocents serve a purpose - what that purpose is depends on the situation,

Like whatever illogical apologetics you invent to justify killing innocents?

You assume these deaths are in vain, and your unbelief in the afterlife exacerbates your anger. But if, in the end, these innocents are resurrected and reconciled to God, then does that not change the entire picture?

Yes, it would if you could prove any of your beliefs here are true.  But all you've got is a house of cards built to justify a belief in a god who's existence you cannot prove.  It's one big circular argument to justify a philosophy of superstition.

Offline MilesAbbott

Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2015, 12:47:17 PM »
SOG, you write: (I'm not using the quote function here because it's tedious)

"See?  Not adequately answered, unless you think everyone should accept unsupported claims.  How do you know God sends them?  How do you know why he sends them?  The most common causes of tidal waves are earthquakes."

Yes, I'm about to quote Scripture here, but as my beliefs are based upon the Bible, which I believe to be true, then it is obviously relevant. If you don't believe it's true, then that is your problem. I am only providing "proof" here as according to my beliefs.

Isaiah 45:7
I am the LORD, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Your unbelief doesn't change the fact that according to the Bible, God creates tidal waves.

You then write:

Yeah right, original sin.  Another unsupported claim.

It is supported by the Bible:

Romans 3:10
As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one."

Does the state of humanity instill you with the notion that it's good? Humanity has proven over and over throughout history that it is thoroughly wicked. Even today, as far advanced as many claim is the human condition, we have ISIS abroad and at home. Are you saying you're righteous? If that is the case, you are wrong, even if you don't see it yourself. You might be a good person according to human standards, but only God's standards matter, and in that respect you, like everyone, fall far short.

You write:
Like whatever illogical apologetics you invent to justify killing innocents?

I'm not apologizing for anything. The deaths of innocents are a terrible thing, and perhaps the most difficult thing one must come to terms with in order to be reconciled to God. But the bottom line is that the Bible acknowledges that the innocent suffer, so to argue as though it doesn't address this is futile.

Life is not about pleasure, it is about learning the difference between good and evil, and experiencing it in such a way that we stop putting faith in ourselves and come to depend on God in all things. Good things will come eventually for all, but this period in our existences must entail suffering:

Acts 14:22
"...Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God."

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: I have concerns about Judgement Day and the White Throne.
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2015, 12:49:31 PM »


You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible.
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