Why the hell does there have to be a point in existence....

Started by 1liesalot, November 11, 2015, 12:39:07 PM

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Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on December 08, 2015, 07:31:52 PM
Apparently, with just the level I multiverse, there are an infinite number of each of us (cosmic twins?) "out there" and an even larger infinity of "cosmic cousins." I think Greene put the average distance at 10^10^122 meters. How far is that in furlongs?

Also, I suppose each and every fictional character that can physically and logically exist actually does exist somewhere in the multiverse. Any other fictional characters that need magic or somesuch for their stories may exist in the level II or III multiverse, and we all float down here...

Yes, there is a universe somewhere .... where Bugs Bunny is real, and you are the cartoon ... Hahaha.

I am helpless ... I can't pick up my fork with my pink grapefruit ... and if it QM-wise randomly should find my mouth ... then it will have no effect on me when I swallow it because diet is ... woo woo (sarc)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2015, 06:52:41 AM
Yes, there is a universe somewhere .... where Bugs Bunny is real, and you are the cartoon ... Hahaha.


Yeah, if there were multiple universes, why would the assumption be that we would have to occupy them at all?  This is the way it is often portrayed in science fiction; Versions of ourselves that have chosen a slightly different life path, almost as if there are other universes, we have to occupy them or they will implode.

Solomon Zorn

Quote from: Unbeliever on December 08, 2015, 07:31:52 PM
Apparently, with just the level I multiverse, there are an infinite number of each of us (cosmic twins?) "out there" and an even larger infinity of "cosmic cousins."
Does it have to be an infinite number? What if it's just some random number of possibilities that become actuality? :think:
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

aitm

Quote from: SGOS on December 09, 2015, 08:45:24 AM
Yeah, if there were multiple universes, why would the assumption be that we would have to occupy them at all?  This is the way it is often portrayed in science fiction; Versions of ourselves that have chosen a slightly different life path, almost as if there are other universes, we have to occupy them or they will implode.

Indeed, I remember the first time I heard of the "space time continuum" that if humans went back and altered the past this would somehow fuck up the universe. If our entire solar system was an atom bomb, the universe would scare feel its eruption, like a bubble in the ocean foam. So I don't think the re-organizing of a trillion or so atoms in a smidgen of a pimple of space would actually do anything at all.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Solomon Zorn

Quote from: Unbeliever on December 08, 2015, 07:31:52 PMAlso, I suppose each and every fictional character that can physically and logically exist actually does exist somewhere in the multiverse. Any other fictional characters that need magic or somesuch for their stories may exist in the level II or III multiverse, and we all float down here...
Does that mean that Jesus, and Muhammad are both real in some dimension of the multiverse? PLEASE DON'T LET THEM GET THEIR HANDS ON THE INFINITY GAUNTLET! :character0029: The Tazmanian Devil might save us, because in one dimension he is on Prozac, and becomes a superhero known as the Fuzzy Cyclone.
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Unbeliever

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on December 09, 2015, 09:46:40 AM
Does it have to be an infinite number? What if it's just some random number of possibilities that become actuality? :think:

Well, infinity is a very slippery concept. The way I've seen it explained is that any Hubble volume must have a finite number of particles, because too much matter/energy in any volume would collapse into a black hole. And this finite number of particles could only be arranged in a finite number of ways, ensuring that in an infinite universe every possible combination would arise an infinite number of times. We are each of us included in the potential combinations that can arise.

Hence, we exist because we must. We are all necessary beings.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

trdsf

Quote from: aitm on December 09, 2015, 09:48:52 AM
Indeed, I remember the first time I heard of the "space time continuum" that if humans went back and altered the past this would somehow fuck up the universe. If our entire solar system was an atom bomb, the universe would scare feel its eruption, like a bubble in the ocean foam. So I don't think the re-organizing of a trillion or so atoms in a smidgen of a pimple of space would actually do anything at all.
Heck, the human body would barely notice a trillion or so atoms; there are something on the order of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms in the human body -- ten octillion -- of which a trillion would only be one ten-quadrillionth of one's body mass.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

aitm

Quote from: trdsf on December 09, 2015, 06:56:44 PM
Heck, the human body would barely notice a trillion or so atoms; there are something on the order of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms in the human body -- ten octillion -- of which a trillion would only be one ten-quadrillionth of one's body mass.

stop being picky, I don't how many atoms there are..... ya nut :)
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

trdsf

Quote from: aitm on December 10, 2015, 02:52:56 PM
stop being picky, I don't how many atoms there are..... ya nut :)
I love a good run with huge numbers.  :D
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Unbeliever

Heck, 10 octillion isn't such a big number. The vast majority of numbers are so big we couldn't possibly symbolize them in any way.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Combinatorics makes things worse.  Even if there were an infinite number of atoms, the combining of those atoms is a bigger infinity.

Don't worry ... the Improbability Drive always produces random results.  So there is only a small but finite odds that you would end up in a universe where Jesus was real ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SkyChief

Quote from: trdsf on December 09, 2015, 06:56:44 PM
Heck, the human body would barely notice a trillion or so atoms; there are something on the order of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms in the human body -- ten octillion -- of which a trillion would only be one ten-quadrillionth of one's body mass.

No wonder Ive been feeling so bloated lately.
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."    - Albert Einstein

josephpalazzo

Quote from: aitm on December 08, 2015, 09:29:21 PM
I would argue that you wonder at the universe and are thusly profoundly impacted by "it". If a single grain of sand, at the bottom of an ocean, any ocean, anywhere, is disturbed by a passing fish or eel, does it effect the sun? Does a single squirrel, chasing after a fallen acorn somewhere in the remotest part of Nevada, or Brazil effect anything on Jupiter? Does a human, with thousands of years of self aggrandizing ego consider that a piece of tree bark already rotting on the forest floor, a mere few percentile of DNA different than ours have the same right to claim that it as well, has an "in" on the universe? Humans are such arrogant things. I think, therefore I think I am, therefore I think I am all.

Unknowingly, you've just described Quantum Effective Field Theory, which would say that a passing fish or eel does not effect the sun... Now, Chaos Theory says otherwise (a butterfly in China can create a hurricane in the Atlantic) but between CT and EFT, the latter wins overwhelmingly.

josephpalazzo


trdsf

Quote from: Unbeliever on December 11, 2015, 07:28:26 PM
Heck, 10 octillion isn't such a big number. The vast majority of numbers are so big we couldn't possibly symbolize them in any way.
Well, there's what, an estimated 1089 particles in the observable universe?  So your body is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms, which I found on another site worked out to something in on the order of 64,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 particles (protons, neutrons and electrons -- lotsa hydrogen pulls the average particles per atom down).  And the universe is around 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 particles, around 98% of which is hydrogen and helium, so we're still looking at reasonably close to 4E88 atoms.  Those are really difficult numbers to get our heads around, much less the ratios.  I have to fight the instinct to tell myself, looking at 1E28 and 1E89, that 89 is less than three times 28 so they're really not all that far apart, even though it's the difference between the size of a man and the size of everything.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan