Why the hell does there have to be a point in existence....

[GreatLife]

I am frequently astonished by the capacity of the deity pedlars to believe that to be an atheist is to accept that life is meaningless. But so what if it is? Why does there have to be a point in existence? Surely, there doesn't.

There doesn't need to be some universal purpose to life... But life is so much more interesting when you choose to assign purpose to your own life. A double edged sword.

[Savior2006]

I have come to interpret "I refuse to believe this all happened by chance/accident" as "I refuse to believe that I am anything but divine and special and the center of the universe. The whole point of the universe."

Humans are not the center of the universe.

[SGOS]

I am frequently astonished by the capacity of the deity pedlars to believe that to be an atheist is to accept that life is meaningless. But so what if it is? Why does there have to be a point in existence? Surely, there doesn't.

It seems like an appropriate response would be, "Yeah?  So what's your point?"

[Baruch]

I have come to interpret "I refuse to believe this all happened by chance/accident" as "I refuse to believe that I am anything but divine and special and the center of the universe. The whole point of the universe."

Humans are not the center of the universe.

Every being is the center of the universe.  There isn't just one center, but many.  And not just humans, but all beings.  Atoms are not the center of the universe, but what it is physically made up.  A charged atom, doesn't just exist at a tiny point ... but its EM field extends across the entire universe.  The gravitational field of the atom, even the neutral atom, also extends across the entire universe.  So how big is an atom?

[Sal1981]

Ask a related question to the "meaning of life," and the nonsensical quality of the gibberish begins to become apparent: "What is the meaning of a turtle?"  It makes sense for the uniformed to ask, "What IS a turtle?" but to ask for it's meaning makes an assumption that a turtle has meaning.  You can ask what is life, but to ask for it's meaning makes an unsupported claim. 

I usually attribute the very word "meaning" to be an anthropomorphic term entirely, it's the other word from the other side of the coin: the word "purpose".

The "meaning of life" only makes sense in a human context, IMO. So if you strip that human context, like pondering what life will be like after you're dead, you might start to realize that there is no meaning, neither purpose. Life just is or it is not. This becomes particularly apparent in pondering what meaning had your life before you were born? Well, none - you weren't there to establish a meaning.

It's probably just one of those "profoundity" things; sounds deep but is really just incompatible concepts stringed together.

[Sal1981]

Every being is the center of the universe.  There isn't just one center, but many.  And not just humans, but all beings.  Atoms are not the center of the universe, but what it is physically made up.  A charged atom, doesn't just exist at a tiny point ... but its EM field extends across the entire universe.  The gravitational field of the atom, even the neutral atom, also extends across the entire universe.  So how big is an atom?

I'm not so sure, wouldn't the gravitational force attenuate below Planck size and be virtually zero, when going far enough away from the center of the atom in question?

[Baruch]

I'm not so sure, wouldn't the gravitational force attenuate below Planck size and be virtually zero, when going far enough away from the center of the atom in question?

If we want to bring in physics speculation, like Plank length, time, mass etc ... well then we can imagine anything.  Classically speaking, the field goes out to the edge of the universe, if it has an edge.  For computation, we approximate it as zero not too far from the center of charge/mass.  But this is us doing it, not nature.  And in QM, the wave-function or quantum field similarly has no proper boundary ... though quantized results only happen close to the atom.  A free electron ... freed from a hydrogen nucleus ... has a quantum number of infinity, rather than a finite number (1, 2, etc).  At that circumstance, the classical result is good enough.

[Ace101]

I am frequently astonished by the capacity of the deity pedlars to believe that to be an atheist is to accept that life is meaningless. But so what if it is? Why does there have to be a point in existence? Surely, there doesn't.

From a biological perspective, why would humans be the only species on the planet which doesn't have a purpose to its existence? How does that 1% difference in DNA from chimpanzees mean that humans are the only species of animal without normative behavior?

[SGOS]

From a biological perspective, why would humans be the only species on the planet which doesn't have a purpose to its existence? How does that 1% difference in DNA from chimpanzees mean that humans are the only species of animal without normative behavior?

Ask our Perky over in the other thread.

[Baruch]

From a biological perspective, why would humans be the only species on the planet which doesn't have a purpose to its existence? How does that 1% difference in DNA from chimpanzees mean that humans are the only species of animal without normative behavior?

"Purpose" has several meanings.  The biological purpose of all creatures is to compete for food and sex.  Hope you are getting some ;-)  There is a continuum between apes and humans ... our behavior is simply more complex (at least in biology, but not in theology).

[widdershins]

I know the meaning of life.  I learned it on the way to work one day.

I was driving along, groggy because I'm not a morning person, when I noticed two birds flying around.  One, presumably the male, was chasing the other.  He was matching her graceful moves instantly.  It was as if they were one creature with two parts, flying gracefully through the air.  It was quite moving.  Even more so when, again, as one, they flew in front of my car and only she emerged from the other side of my grill.  While this may sound like a joke, I assure you, I am entirely serious.  It was at that moment that I fully understood the meaning of life for the first time.  You see, he followed her to his death in their beautiful mating ritual.  He didn't intend to, of course, but the only thing important to him at that time was her.  She had calculated her path and believed she had enough time to make it, which she did.  He had not calculated.  He jut followed because of an overwhelming desire for the female he was following.  Death is coming for all of us, but until that day the meaning of life is to seek happiness.  For some, like the bird, it is to propagate, not just the species, but our specific genetic line.  For others it's the dying "American dream".  For still others a seemingly meaningless existence (to outside observers) is enough.  The meaning of life is to seek what makes you happy until you die.  The meaning of life is to make of your life what makes you content with your life.  The meaning of life is nothing more than to live.  Not survive, but live.

We each give our own lives our own meaning.  Some people simply can't imagine there being any meaning if they are just going to die.  This is shortsighted and narrow-minded.  They project their own idea of meaning onto others.  They see people who accept that they will one day die as leading meaningless existences.  But my life doesn't have to have meaning to you, only to me.  It is, after all, my life.  It has meaning if, and only if, I believe it does.  You may believe a life has no meaning if the person does not become President of the United States or set some other ludicrous requirement for a life to have meaning.  And that's okay.  But that's what would give your life meaning.  I have 4 kids and they are better people than I was at their age.  That's what gives my life meaning.  That's enough for me.  If you need more, or just something else, by all means, go for it.  But for me, my life already has meaning enough.  If you want to project your idea of meaning onto me, I'm sorry, but your projection only has meaning to you.  You simply can't expect it to have meaning to me.

[aitm]

Every being is the center of the universe.  There isn't just one center, but many.  And not just humans, but all beings.  Atoms are not the center of the universe, but what it is physically made up.  A charged atom, doesn't just exist at a tiny point ... but its EM field extends across the entire universe.  The gravitational field of the atom, even the neutral atom, also extends across the entire universe.  So how big is an atom?

Oh please… to a human a dust mite and an atom might as well be the same size, they are both microscopic…..big ho-hum. If the universe was a human it could not tell the difference between our entire solar system and an atom. Humans are so full of themselves they cannot comprehend they are as important to the universe as a dust mite. You are welcome to stroke yourself to your own content but the reality is the same. Humans cannot change the fucking "continuum" no more than a little bubble on the thousand mile shore of Chile can.

[Baruch]

Oh please… to a human a dust mite and an atom might as well be the same size, they are both microscopic…..big ho-hum. If the universe was a human it could not tell the difference between our entire solar system and an atom. Humans are so full of themselves they cannot comprehend they are as important to the universe as a dust mite. You are welcome to stroke yourself to your own content but the reality is the same. Humans cannot change the fucking "continuum" no more than a little bubble on the thousand mile shore of Chile can.

You seem to be unaware of the Butterfly Effect.  And I wasn't expressing egotism, but you seem to expressing nihilism.

This brings up a couple of good questions:

1. Is my self definition limited to what I can willfully effect?  Our infantile body definition we learned as an infant.

2. If I unknowingly crush a butterfly while walking in the forest, are there consequences for me?  Chaos theory says yes.

With the first question ... when I move my arm, I have learned that it s a part of myself.  But when I pick up my fork to eat, does it temporarily become a part of me?  What of artificial limbs?  And if it does ... then when I type this, the Internet temporarily becomes a part of me?  What if two people reach for the same fork at the same time ... that is a bit like the Internet example ... a shared resource ... but unlike the fork example, more than one person at a time can easily use it?  Which brings us to Siamese twins that share some part of their body ... where does one begin and the other end?  They often share neural systems.

With the second question, self definition includes what you are conscious of, and what you are not conscious of ... but what if the majority of your self, is something you are not conscious of?  What happens when the unconscious part of you is impacted by something you did, or someone else did?

[SoldierofFortune]

OK!..
We should tolerate that the life doesn't really have any meaning or purpose.
There is no escape other than tolerating this situation.

[widdershins]

OK!..
We should tolerate that the life doesn't really have any meaning or purpose.
There is no escape other than tolerating this situation.

Meaning is assigned. not inherent.  The lack of any higher power with the authority to assign meaning to each individual life means it is to us to assign any meaning to our own lives, if we so choose.  Your life is meaningless if you assign it no meaning.  It has meaning if you assign some meaning to it.  I am okay with tolerating a the meaningless existences of others.  What I cannot tolerate is those who presume to assign meaning to my life.  Using the excuse of a higher power, who, coincidentally, feels exactly the same way about every situation as they do, they assign meaning to all others, pretending it comes from "above".