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You are nothing but an algorithm

Started by josephpalazzo, October 28, 2015, 09:41:35 AM

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peacewithoutgod

I'm reading through a similar discussion in Darwin's Dangerous Idea, an old one by Daniel Dennett. It explains why no designing mind is necessary for life to evolve.
http://www.amazon.com/DARWINS-DANGEROUS-IDEA-EVOLUTION-MEANINGS/dp/068482471X
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

peacewithoutgod

Quote from: Atheon on October 28, 2015, 01:59:49 PM
Al Gore rhythm?
I'm afraid there's just no empirical evidence to support the existence of this.
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: stromboli on October 28, 2015, 04:31:28 PM
Al Gore got rhythm?
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 02, 2015, 09:16:16 AM
I'm afraid there's just no empirical evidence to support the existence of this.


Here's evidence...


Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 02, 2015, 09:10:18 AM
I'm reading through a similar discussion in Darwin's Dangerous Idea, an old one by Daniel Dennett. It explains why no designing mind is necessary for life to evolve.
http://www.amazon.com/DARWINS-DANGEROUS-IDEA-EVOLUTION-MEANINGS/dp/068482471X

Apparently complexity can arise from very simple natural laws, as cellular automata seem to show. Minds are just another level of complexity, and so should be able to evolve without conscious direction from a divine mind, just a few simple rules endlessly iterated.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on November 04, 2015, 05:17:14 PM
Apparently complexity can arise from very simple natural laws, as cellular automata seem to show. Minds are just another level of complexity, and so should be able to evolve without conscious direction from a divine mind, just a few simple rules endlessly iterated.

Also why we keep iterating the same mistakes over and over ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

Yeah, I guess that's one definition of insanity, huh?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Unbeliever on November 04, 2015, 05:17:14 PM
Apparently complexity can arise from very simple natural laws, as cellular automata seem to show. Minds are just another level of complexity, and so should be able to evolve without conscious direction from a divine mind, just a few simple rules endlessly iterated.

But you need a god to put a soul in that thingamajing...

Baruch

Quote from: josephpalazzo on November 06, 2015, 10:10:03 AM
But you need a god to put a soul in that thingamajing...

Not really.  You mean like this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_of_the_Machine

Randian polemic.  Paterson (author) was a deist.  Rand was an atheist.  Both were progenitors of the right-wing mess we have now, though the current direct descendants of Ron Paul and Rand Paul are flogging a dead horse.

Or just struggling with Descartes dualism?  This is why Descartes made the term "mind" popular, to avoid words like "soul" and "spirit".  He was trying to avoid the Inquisition.  Reductionism causes one to look thru the wrong end of the telescope.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Jason78

Quote from: Unbeliever on November 04, 2015, 05:17:14 PM
Apparently complexity can arise from very simple natural laws, as cellular automata seem to show. Minds are just another level of complexity, and so should be able to evolve without conscious direction from a divine mind, just a few simple rules endlessly iterated.

What if those neural cellular automata can be replaced with silicone and graphene?   Say they added them one at a a time to copy each existing neuron perfectly and then take them over, would you even notice?  Would you be the same person?
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Baruch

#26
Quote from: Jason78 on November 06, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
What if those neural cellular automata can be replaced with silicone and graphene?   Say they added them one at a a time to copy each existing neuron perfectly and then take them over, would you even notice?  Would you be the same person?

Same as the Star Trek transporter Gedanken experiment ... is the you on the Enterprise the same you before you were beamed aboard?  These are very good questions.  Can there even be a duplicate you at the same time, nearby?  This has been explored in science fiction, but not in science.  On the small scale, one electron is already the same as any other.  They are all identical twins.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

peacewithoutgod

Quote from: Baruch on November 06, 2015, 11:36:14 AM
Not really.  You mean like this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_of_the_Machine

Randian polemic.  Paterson (author) was a deist.  Rand was an atheist.  Both were progenitors of the right-wing mess we have now, though the current direct descendants of Ron Paul and Rand Paul are flogging a dead horse.

Or just struggling with Descartes dualism?  This is why Descartes made the term "mind" popular, to avoid words like "soul" and "spirit".  He was trying to avoid the Inquisition.  Reductionism causes one to look thru the wrong end of the telescope.

Yes, gotta love how the Tea Party libertarians love so much the ideas of a Social Darwinian atheist, of a philosophy which follows essentially the same as the Anton LeVay Satanists.

On reductionism - that is such a quaint old word which you tend to favor, but I have to ask just exactly what you have in mind by it? We all practice reductionism to some degree.
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Baruch

Quote from: peacewithoutgod on November 08, 2015, 05:26:56 PM
Yes, gotta love how the Tea Party libertarians love so much the ideas of a Social Darwinian atheist, of a philosophy which follows essentially the same as the Anton LeVay Satanists.

On reductionism - that is such a quaint old word which you tend to favor, but I have to ask just exactly what you have in mind by it? We all practice reductionism to some degree.

Yes, I walk on two legs to some degree ... but that isn't all I do.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.