Author Topic: You are nothing but an algorithm  (Read 3666 times)

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2015, 05:28:19 AM »
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Sounds familiar.


Mandelbrot

Offline peacewithoutgod

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2015, 09:10:18 AM »
I'm reading through a similar discussion in Darwin's Dangerous Idea, an old one by Daniel Dennett. It explains why no designing mind is necessary for life to evolve.
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There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Offline peacewithoutgod

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2015, 09:16:16 AM »
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Al Gore rhythm?
I'm afraid there's just no empirical evidence to support the existence of this.
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2015, 12:42:14 PM »
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Al Gore got rhythm?
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I'm afraid there's just no empirical evidence to support the existence of this.


Here's evidence...

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Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2015, 05:02:13 PM »
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Only dogs eat their own shit.  Got dog?

Got mittens?
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If something cannot logically exist due to incompatible properties, then it does not exist. The God of the Bible has such incompatible properties, and so it does not exist.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginο»Ώ

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2015, 05:17:14 PM »
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I'm reading through a similar discussion in Darwin's Dangerous Idea, an old one by Daniel Dennett. It explains why no designing mind is necessary for life to evolve.
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Apparently complexity can arise from very simple natural laws, as cellular automata seem to show. Minds are just another level of complexity, and so should be able to evolve without conscious direction from a divine mind, just a few simple rules endlessly iterated.
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If something cannot logically exist due to incompatible properties, then it does not exist. The God of the Bible has such incompatible properties, and so it does not exist.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginο»Ώ

Offline Baruch

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2015, 08:22:06 PM »
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Apparently complexity can arise from very simple natural laws, as cellular automata seem to show. Minds are just another level of complexity, and so should be able to evolve without conscious direction from a divine mind, just a few simple rules endlessly iterated.

Also why we keep iterating the same mistakes over and over ;-)
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2015, 03:41:07 PM »
Yeah, I guess that's one definition of insanity, huh?
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If something cannot logically exist due to incompatible properties, then it does not exist. The God of the Bible has such incompatible properties, and so it does not exist.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginο»Ώ

Offline josephpalazzo

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2015, 10:10:03 AM »
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Apparently complexity can arise from very simple natural laws, as cellular automata seem to show. Minds are just another level of complexity, and so should be able to evolve without conscious direction from a divine mind, just a few simple rules endlessly iterated.

But you need a god to put a soul in that thingamajing...

Offline Baruch

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2015, 11:36:14 AM »
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But you need a god to put a soul in that thingamajing...

Not really.  You mean like this?
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Randian polemic.  Paterson (author) was a deist.  Rand was an atheist.  Both were progenitors of the right-wing mess we have now, though the current direct descendants of Ron Paul and Rand Paul are flogging a dead horse.

Or just struggling with Descartes dualism?  This is why Descartes made the term "mind" popular, to avoid words like "soul" and "spirit".  He was trying to avoid the Inquisition.  Reductionism causes one to look thru the wrong end of the telescope.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2015, 01:51:01 PM »
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Apparently complexity can arise from very simple natural laws, as cellular automata seem to show. Minds are just another level of complexity, and so should be able to evolve without conscious direction from a divine mind, just a few simple rules endlessly iterated.

What if those neural cellular automata can be replaced with silicone and graphene?   Say they added them one at a a time to copy each existing neuron perfectly and then take them over, would you even notice?  Would you be the same person?
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tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Offline Baruch

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2015, 02:32:53 PM »
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What if those neural cellular automata can be replaced with silicone and graphene?   Say they added them one at a a time to copy each existing neuron perfectly and then take them over, would you even notice?  Would you be the same person?

Same as the Star Trek transporter Gedanken experiment ... is the you on the Enterprise the same you before you were beamed aboard?  These are very good questions.  Can there even be a duplicate you at the same time, nearby?  This has been explored in science fiction, but not in science.  On the small scale, one electron is already the same as any other.  They are all identical twins.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 11:01:37 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline peacewithoutgod

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2015, 05:26:56 PM »
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Not really.  You mean like this?
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Randian polemic.  Paterson (author) was a deist.  Rand was an atheist.  Both were progenitors of the right-wing mess we have now, though the current direct descendants of Ron Paul and Rand Paul are flogging a dead horse.

Or just struggling with Descartes dualism?  This is why Descartes made the term "mind" popular, to avoid words like "soul" and "spirit".  He was trying to avoid the Inquisition.  Reductionism causes one to look thru the wrong end of the telescope.

Yes, gotta love how the Tea Party libertarians love so much the ideas of a Social Darwinian atheist, of a philosophy which follows essentially the same as the Anton LeVay Satanists.

On reductionism - that is such a quaint old word which you tend to favor, but I have to ask just exactly what you have in mind by it? We all practice reductionism to some degree.
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Offline Baruch

Re: You are nothing but an algorithm
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2015, 11:02:38 PM »
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Yes, gotta love how the Tea Party libertarians love so much the ideas of a Social Darwinian atheist, of a philosophy which follows essentially the same as the Anton LeVay Satanists.

On reductionism - that is such a quaint old word which you tend to favor, but I have to ask just exactly what you have in mind by it? We all practice reductionism to some degree.

Yes, I walk on two legs to some degree ... but that isn't all I do.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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