Tolerance: Muslims Versus Jews

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Most Christians also think that people like us are going to burn in an eternal furnace, and in fact relish the prospect. There are also many Christians in the United States who would love nothing more than to kill all non-White people. The only thing preventing them from doing this is the fact that we have civilized laws in this country. For some reason, we on this forum seem to think this good enough to give them a free pass in most discussions. As I've said in the past, we are willing to separate individuals from the group if it's from any familiar Western group. But for some reason we're not willing to apply that same separation to Muslims. Again, I don't see a lot of out rage on this forum whenever a Hindu kills someone for having the temerity to wear leather.


Secretly a Warsie.

[pr126]

A simple explanation would be perhaps, that it is the will of Allah. It is written in the Quran, it is following the example of Muhammad, Q 33:21.

Why? because the goal, which is world domination is the central command, the foundation of the [political] ideology.
The religion is the glue, the cohesive force that keeps it together.
It is based on that  single idea which came from Muhammad. Later codified by successive khalifs.

The religion is based on war, conquest, plunder, slavery. 

Also there are many safeguards built into the religion which is forbidding Muslims to change anything at all on pain of death.
That is why it has not been able to change.

Read this: There are 28 points. I list the first 5.

The Terrifying Brilliance of Islam

1. A standardized version of the idea-collection is written down. This is something basic to several religions and isn't an Islamic invention, but it is an important factor in the success of Islam.

Something only transmitted orally can change over time, but something written will be identical a thousand years from now, and with modern printing presses, can be reproduced in the millions, giving it an enormous advantage in spreading identical copies of the idea-collection.

2. The Quran includes instructions for its own spread. It tells believers they must spread Islam. It is their holy duty to bring Mohammad's warnings and Islamic law to every corner of the world. Read more about that.

3. The idea-collection includes instructions for its own preservation, protection, and replication fidelity. The Quran, the most important of the Islamic holy books, directly tells its followers that they can never change or modify or "modernize" any of the teachings within the idea-collection. It is perfect as it is. It is a capital sin to try to do so. This idea ensures the preservation of the whole collection.

These first three ideas are pretty standard for several successful religions. But now it gets interesting...

4. Islam commands its followers to create a government that supports it. This may be one of the most ingenious ideas in the whole collection. Islam is the only religion that uses it. Other groups of religious people have had political aspirations, but no other major religious group orders its followers â€" as a religious duty â€" to create a government that follows its own system of law.

Islam has a system of law, called Sharia, and all Muslims are obligated to continually strive to make their government â€" wherever they are â€" follow it. Because of some of the other ideas added to Islam, you will see that this political addition to the idea-collection has significant consequences. Not only is this perhaps Islam's most brilliant innovation, it is also the most terrifying to non-Muslims. Read more about the political nature of the core doctrines of Islam.

5. Permission to spread the religion by war. This is another brilliant innovation. Although some other religions have spread themselves using force, they had very little justification from their own religious doctrines to do so.

Not so with Islam. Expanding by conquest is very much accepted and encouraged by the idea-collection. Islamic teachings present it this way: The poor non-Muslims not living in an Islamic state need to be saved from the sin of following laws other than Allah's. If they won't voluntarily change their laws to Sharia, then it is the duty of Muslim warriors to insist. The world cannot be at peace until every government on earth follows the laws of Allah.

Mohammad's own experience showed the example â€" an example, says the Quran 91 times, that every Muslim should follow. At first, Mohammad tried to spread Islam by peaceful means. After thirteen years he had a paltry 150 converts.

But then he changed tactics and started using warfare, slaughter, executions, and assassination, and within ten years he converted tens of thousands, and after he died, they used the same tactics and converted millions. And by simple population increase, it is now over a billion.

The use of warfare combines synergistically and powerfully with the instruction to create an Islamic state. So Islam spread quickly as their armies got bigger. They conquered and set up Islamic states, most of which have lasted to this day, and the laws within an Islamic state make Islam very difficult to dislodge. The laws also make it very advantageous to convert to Islam.

This is one of the most effective methods ever invented for getting an idea-collection into huge numbers of minds. It's a method of control and indoctrination similar to those used successfully in communist and totalitarian states. But as you'll discover below, Islam makes unique use of the power of the law to enforce complete conversion to the religion.

[CloneKai]

Most Christians also think that people like us are going to burn in an eternal furnace, and in fact relish the prospect. There are also many Christians in the United States who would love nothing more than to kill all non-White people. The only thing preventing them from doing this is the fact that we have civilized laws in this country. For some reason, we on this forum seem to think this good enough to give them a free pass in most discussions. As I've said in the past, we are willing to separate individuals from the group if it's from any familiar Western group. But for some reason we're not willing to apply that same separation to Muslims. Again, I don't see a lot of out rage on this forum whenever a Hindu kills someone for having the temerity to wear leather.


Secretly a Warsie.

Didn't hear about the Hindu thing but

Does community laws effect the way the citizens think? Would a Christian think it is right to kill somebody who insults Jesus?
Because many muslim do think it is right to shut someone up if they insult muhammad (don't know how many think it is right to kill though), and many muslim do live in a place where insulting muhammad is considered a serious offense.
to me it is more of a society thing, a muslim living in USA will be less likely agree to kill someone who insults muhammad as compared someone living in iran. Because society does shape our morals of right and wrong.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Didn't hear about the Hindu thing but

Does community laws effect the way the citizens think? Would a Christian think it is right to kill somebody who insults Jesus?
Because many muslim do think it is right to shut someone up if they insult muhammad (don't know how many think it is right to kill though), and many muslim do live in a place where insulting muhammad is considered a serious offense.
to me it is more of a society thing, a muslim living in USA will be less likely agree to kill someone who insults muhammad as compared someone living in iran. Because society does shape our morals of right and wrong.

Well, if it's the society that decides what parts of the religion are right and wrong, then why blame the religion?

I'm not saying that I don't think religion is the problem, but you seem to be holding two contradictory views here.


Secretly a Warsie.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

A simple explanation would be perhaps, that it is the will of Allah. It is written in the Quran, it is following the example of Muhammad, Q 33:21.

Why? because the goal, which is world domination is the central command, the foundation of the ideology.
The religion is the glue, the cohesive force that keeps it going.
It is based on that  single idea which came from Muhammad. Later codified by successive khalifs.

The religion is based on war, conquest, plunder, slavery. 

Also there are many safeguards built into the religion which is forbidding Muslims to change anything at all on pain of death.
That is why it has not been able to change.

Read this: There are 28 points. I list the first 5.

The Terrifying Brilliance of Islam

And how is this different from Christianity? After all, it wasn't that long ago that Christians en masse we're doing the exact same thing. The only thing that keeps Christians civil is secularism. If you don't believe me, just look at modern-day Uganda. So, other than the lack of secular thought, what is really the difference between Muslims and Christians? Because honestly, I've never been able to see much difference between Western Muslims in the United States and their Christian counterparts.


Secretly a Warsie.

[pr126]

The difference is minor. They [Chritians] don't kill you or trying to enslave you if you are practicing another religion. Not any more, anyway.
A small detail, I know, but it is a welcome difference nevertheless.

[CloneKai]

Well, if it's the society that decides what parts of the religion are right and wrong, then why blame the religion?

I'm not saying that I don't think religion is the problem, but you seem to be holding two contradictory views here.


Secretly a Warsie.

my writing skills aren't really that good, so i apologize for that but could you please tell me the views you think i have
other than society affects the people too, i don't know which other views i gave.

[jonb]

Christards have been beheading unbelievers for at least a thousand years.

Charlemagne's Christian Frankish soldiers commit a mass execution of defiant pagan continental Saxons at Verden.

1995 Srebrenica

[josephpalazzo]

And how is this different from Christianity? After all, it wasn't that long ago that Christians en masse we're doing the exact same thing. The only thing that keeps Christians civil is secularism. If you don't believe me, just look at modern-day Uganda. So, other than the lack of secular thought, what is really the difference between Muslims and Christians? Because honestly, I've never been able to see much difference between Western Muslims in the United States and their Christian counterparts.


Secretly a Warsie.

You've hit on an important point: Europe went through a horrifying 30 years war, also called the Religious Wars, the end result was secularism. The Islamic world never went through such transformation. And so to the vast majority of Muslims, the concept of secularism is anathema. It is something to worry, not in particular in the USA, but Europe with its growing Muslim population needs to be vigilant that it does not compromise its Western values - one of which is secularism - in regard to the thrust that Muslims will inevitably apply once in sufficient numbers the whole thing of Sharia law.

[CloneKai]

CloneKai ... rhetoric pollutes the dictionary.  We use and misuse words like atheist and terrorist and fascist.  So with Hamas, it depends on if you think they are the Palestinian government or not.  Either they are a state terrorist organization or a non-state terrorist organization.  Terrorism is what extreme politics brings about ... whether authorized or not.  So I don't like the OED's definition.  It completely ignores state terrorism like Stalin and Hitler.  And yes, some people would call such perps patriots or freedom fighters, depending on their official state status.

how would you describe terrorism or state terrorism. and what do you mean by extreme politics?

[The Skeletal Atheist]

In regards to Muslim immigrants to Europe I am mainly worried about the gays and women there. I know it sounds self serving to worry primarily about that, and it is in a way, but I'll be damned if European nations turn a blind eye to homophobic and sexist attacks in the name of "tolerance". We've already been through this shit, we don't need what use to be safe countries turn into closeted countries once again.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

You've hit on an important point: Europe went through a horrifying 30 years war, also called the Religious Wars, the end result was secularism. The Islamic world never went through such transformation. And so to the vast majority of Muslims, the concept of secularism is anathema. It is something to worry, not in particular in the USA, but Europe with its growing Muslim population needs to be vigilant that it does not compromise its Western values - one of which is secularism - in regard to the thrust that Muslims will inevitably apply once in sufficient numbers the whole thing of Sharia law.

Thank you for giving me a clear and concise answer to my question. [emoji4]


Secretly a Warsie.

[pr126]

jonb wrote:

Christards have been beheading unbelievers for at least a thousand years

It is time they stopped then.

Oh and the Crusades and the Inquisition, the witch hunting is still in progress?

[CloneKai]

A simple explanation would be perhaps, that it is the will of Allah. It is written in the Quran, it is following the example of Muhammad, Q 33:21.

Why? because the goal, which is world domination is the central command, the foundation of the [political] ideology.
The religion is the glue, the cohesive force that keeps it together.
It is based on that  single idea which came from Muhammad. Later codified by successive khalifs.

The religion is based on war, conquest, plunder, slavery. 

Also there are many safeguards built into the religion which is forbidding Muslims to change anything at all on pain of death.
That is why it has not been able to change.

Read this: There are 28 points. I list the first 5.

That was a long list but nothing really original to islam. I am sure no mythical god ever said "you can change my words whenever you feel like it".
didn't Christian and Jews also had their own government and laws. and didn't any religion spread by war.
so this doesn't exactly answer my question about terrorism.

[jonb]

Oh and the Crusades and the Inquisition, the witch hunting is still in progress?

'Baby Doe' Bella Bond 'murdered by mum's boyfriend because she was possessed by demons'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/baby-doe-bella-bond-murdered-6489895