Nature Vs. Nurture: How Your Ancestry Affects Your Social Status

Started by stromboli, September 24, 2015, 01:08:36 PM

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Flanker1Six

Social networking = good.  Participating in a clique = bad.   See?  Change a single word and it's all good!     

Jack89

Social Anthropology 101.  It's highly unlikely that you'll deviate much from your parents social status/income level.  One of my favorite classes in college.  I had a thing for my teacher, she was hot.  Anyway, my response is, so what?  Work with what you got and try to have a good outlook on life.

I think that voluntary charity is a very good thing and we should try to keep folks fed, sheltered, clothed, and maybe some basic health care, but that's it.  Everything else is gravy.  If you want more you need to try and change the programming you received from your parents and the environment you were raised in.

Siberia

Quote from: Jack89 on July 15, 2016, 12:56:07 AM
Social Anthropology 101.  It's highly unlikely that you'll deviate much from your parents social status/income level.  One of my favorite classes in college.  I had a thing for my teacher, she was hot.  Anyway, my response is, so what?  Work with what you got and try to have a good outlook on life.

I see your point if you talk about a middle class person, but i find it quite harsh to say that to someone who is born in absolute poverty.
The idea that "it is what it is" and that if you are born in a social class you should stick to it reminds me of the of the rigid class system of the middle ages.

Quote from: Jack89 on July 15, 2016, 12:56:07 AM
I think that voluntary charity is a very good thing and we should try to keep folks fed, sheltered, clothed, and maybe some basic health care, but that's it.  Everything else is gravy.  If you want more you need to try and change the programming you received from your parents and the environment you were raised in.

About this, I don't think that "charity" is the way to go.
I think is basic human rights to be fed, clothed and have your health taken care of, and is we as a society that have to take care of that as an obligation, not as a voluntary pity gift.

Also I think Your last statement contradicts the first. You just can´t "change the programming" if you are, for example, iliterate, or born in a certain place, or in a problematic family.
Society has to provide ways to help those people do better and scape from the endless circle of chronic poverty they may be in.

no one expects the spanish inquisition

doorknob

it's not a simple topic that's for sure. I believe it is the rule of thumb. Yes there are always exceptions to every rule but for the most part people do not advance much.

For example a family born in the city will have a much harder time advancing. I know this because my kids almost grew up in a city (till I got them out of it). The schools were horrible little to no educations available due to the other underlying issues that come with city living. Gangs, drug addicted parents. Parents who work jobs like mcdonalds and have no life skills to teach their kids. Kids who see fast money that comes from drug dealing. It's a quick out and a quick ticket to jail. Once you hit jail it's hard to bounce back from that. No one wants you. There are very few opportunities to advance from poverty stricken families. Not that it's impossible (although for some I'm sure that's true).

I came from a lower middle class family and now live in straight up poverty. I gained no life skills from my family and it shows. I have no skills to offer my children. Their only hope is perhaps college and even that's shaky as most of our family was not able (either too stupid or needed a different teaching method) to complete and pass college. I have very little to no hope of advancing I'm not going to delude myself.

I've seen a lot of shit and this article rings true to me.

Gerard

The whole nature nurture discussion has been going from one extreme to the other in recent history. That's the way it always goes with issues like that.

Gerard

PickelledEggs


Cavebear

Not to make light of a serious subject, but I think success is based a lot on having pushy parents who stole wealth (businessly and sort of legally) and then you inheriting it.

Second to that, grow up hard and read by firelight in a cabin.

I think that covers most national leaders.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Admissioninf

According to me it is sure people only got what they deserve according to their personal efforts.


[mod]Nope![/mod]

Baruch

Quote from: Admissioninf on June 27, 2017, 02:52:09 AM
According to me it is sure people only got what they deserve according to their personal efforts.


[mod]Nope![/mod]

No spamming.  That said, in India, per reincarnation, everyone gets their just deserts ... but it isn't parfait.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

Hillbilly Elegy is a book I'm currently reading.  It's a brief autobiography by a disadvantaged 20 something from rural Kentucky and without a father and a drug addict mother who attempts to provide him with an endless march of rotating fathers that briefly enter her life.  The biggest figure in his formative years seems to be uneducated foulmouthed grandmother whose husband literally doesn't even live in the same house with her.  It's much like something a motivational speaker would write. 

He ends up getting a law degree from Yale.  The message seems to be "If a hillbilly can do it, so can you."  While that's certainly inspirational, it's also certainly not true.  This guy may be a hillbilly, a description he owns with pride, but he is not representative of an average hillbilly or your average American for that matter.  Clearly, he has something else going for him which he underplays in the book.  Hard work counts for a lot and is an undisputable asset, but I suspect that successful people are blessed with a bit more than that.  There are lots of hard working people, even in Kentucky, but most of them are still lucky to get out of the coal mines.

Having said that, it's an interesting book.  The above criticism faults the book more than necessary, but I only chose to comment on one small aspect that jumped out at me, mostly because it seems somewhat germane to the topic at hand.

Baruch

Americans still believe Horatio Alger stories, because the Calvinist interpretation of Capitalism requires it of them.  They remain face down in the bitter dregs of their bender.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Admissioninf on June 27, 2017, 02:52:09 AM
According to me it is sure people only got what they deserve according to their personal efforts.


[mod]Nope![/mod]

Right.  So that child of poor parents, who went to a school full of druggies and bullies and gangs pulling at him every day to join, who had not enough food each day...  That was his own fault for not escaping the poverty and twisted economy he experienced as a child.  Just because a few people are lucky enough to escape that.  Yeah.

The escapees are the exception to the norm, not the rule.

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on June 29, 2017, 04:11:15 AM
Right.  So that child of poor parents, who went to a school full of druggies and bullies and gangs pulling at him every day to join, who had not enough food each day...  That was his own fault for not escaping the poverty and twisted economy he experienced as a child.  Just because a few people are lucky enough to escape that.  Yeah.

The escapees are the exception to the norm, not the rule.

Correct in your POV.  But what do we do with the exceptions to the norm ... like atheists?  Shall we just throw them out?  That is the problem with pesky data points ... some of them spoil the nice curve we optimistically draw thru our data.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

PopeyesPappy

Come on guys. Quit quoting the spam. You're making twice the mess.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.