Author Topic: Does Illegal mean 'illegal' or not?  (Read 4048 times)

Offline Shiranu

Re: Does Illegal mean 'illegal' or not?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2013, 08:27:46 AM »
Impractical, impartial and ineffective laws don't deserve respect in the first place, and certainly don't deserve more respect than other human beings. Especially when its a relative who wasn't even a participant in the "crime" who suffers the most from the punishment  (besides hurting ourself).
"The ancients still want to speak to us, we've just forgotten the language.

Re:
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2013, 08:47:42 AM »
Quote from: "Plu"
Quote
And Sorry.... but offering our military higher education should come first.

Why? This comment seems completely out of place from the rest of the post. I could understand "our own people", but "the military"?

As for feeling guilt for people who broke the law; if the alternative to breaking the law would be even worse for them and they're not really hurting anyone all too much, I can feel their pain and understand their reasoning, and realise that there might be something wrong with the law.

Why should our service men and women deserve the college tuition they were promised??
Did you just ask that?
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Offline Plu

(No subject)
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2013, 08:51:19 AM »
No I asked "why should top priority go to the education of the military".

If you meant "top priority should go to those who were previously promised tuition, which includes the military", that makes a lot more sense.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Re:
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2013, 09:00:16 AM »
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"
 
Well, never let it be said that I'd deny anyone education --- BUT --- I sure don't think my daughter should lose her tuition money from the ARMY while we agree - via Dream Act - to college educate **illegals**.
Sorry.....but if kids grow up here then they should be citizens and we can call them something ELSE and not illegal.  And Sorry.... but offering our military higher education should come first.

or...... am I crazy?
No, you are not crazy.  You are experiencing betrayal.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Does Illegal mean 'illegal' or not?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2013, 09:06:45 AM »
There seems to be a tie-in here with letting the kids of immigrants go to school and defense budget cuts for veterans and frankly I don't see the knot...or t?e string for that matter. It's like saying Uncle Sugar paid one federal clerk at social security an extra DOLLAR and now look at it.. My bridge to nowhere won't get built. It's not fair!
This is policy wonk kabooky, but I don't see any nefarious attempts to deprive veterans education just to send illegal immigrants to school.'
All hail my new signature!

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Offline Nonsensei

Re:
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2013, 09:15:21 AM »
Quote from: "Plu"
Quote
And Sorry.... but offering our military higher education should come first.

Why? This comment seems completely out of place from the rest of the post. I could understand "our own people", but "the military"?

As for feeling guilt for people who broke the law; if the alternative to breaking the law would be even worse for them and they're not really hurting anyone all too much, I can feel their pain and understand their reasoning, and realise that there might be something wrong with the law.

Well I also agree that our military personnel should be prioritized. Many people enter the service counting on the he military to pay their tuition. Its part of the deal. A deal that has people risking their lives in the service of our country. It really is quite hard to swallow that they are denied while people who aren't even citizens are financed.

As to your second point, I am not certain why I or the law should be required to show regard for illegal immigrants. The fact is that they use public services and don't pay taxes. That harms every taxpayer so their presence is hardly innocuous.

The law serves society above the individual, so while I recognize the personal tragedy of deportation I do not feel the law should be changed to accommodate those individuals at the expense of society.
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

Re:
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2013, 09:16:58 AM »
Quote from: "Plu"
No I asked "why should top priority go to the education of the military".

If you meant "top priority should go to those who were previously promised tuition, which includes the military", that makes a lot more sense.

yes- sorry.

There really is NO link, no tie to these two situations other than bad timing:
Giving illegal immigrants higher education opportunities
and
stripping our service men and women of their PROMISED higher education opportunities.

It's BAD timing.   What's worse is while the bill passed to allow illegal immigrants this educational opportunity NO ONE (not a single congressman) was discussing why our military were just stripped their tuition promises (???)
So........
yeah that can't sit right with me.

Now....... do I deny ANYone higher education? No.  Education is key.
(1)  I dont think kids who grow up here their whole lives should be f*ing illegals ???  I dont get that.
(2) I dont think it's right to GIVE illegal non-citizens educational rights while refusing those who keep those illegals safe day in and day out.  That is some straight up Bullshit.
(3) I dont see congress with ONE solution in sight - other than educating what they call illegals???

what's wrong with this picture.............seriously???

straight up bullshit and makes my head hurt.

Also........ I can't talk about this on FB anymore for people who are FAR more bleeding heart liberal than me are telling me to shove it OR bad-ass republicans are yelping on my page 'Well YOU voted for this administration"...
which makes NO sense.
That's the new answer now - for everything we might not like
"well you voted for this administration" as if Obama is a KING and lays down law minus congress.

What.  The.  Fuck ???


*should turn off computer.........too much stoooopid for one morning*
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Does Illegal mean 'illegal' or not?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2013, 09:28:17 AM »
Bri, you've been around long enough to know Uncle Sugar fucks things up on a regular basis and is, for the most part an equal opportunity fuckor.. I could spend the next five years doing nothing but posting absurdities in the law and by the end of that five years another eight years of absurdity will have become law.
The best thing to do it say, 'fuck facebook' and the dumb shit that seems to coat it like a film of sleeze scraped off the bathroom floor at a dirty bookstore and concentrate on raising hell with Uncle Sugar.. ;-)
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline Plu

(No subject)
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2013, 09:29:41 AM »
Quote
As to your second point, I am not certain why I or the law should be required to show regard for illegal immigrants. The fact is that they use public services and don't pay taxes. That harms every taxpayer so their presence is hardly innocuous.

This is a cyclical argument. The reason they don't pay taxes, is because they're illegal. If you'd allow them to stay legally, they'd start paying taxes, thus removing this problem.


@Sabrina, I agree with your assessment, then. I suppose the first one was just worded a bit poorly. It is unfair to take away something you promised people only to give it others.
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Re:
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2013, 10:57:29 AM »
Quote from: "Plu"
Quote
As to your second point, I am not certain why I or the law should be required to show regard for illegal immigrants. The fact is that they use public services and don't pay taxes. That harms every taxpayer so their presence is hardly innocuous.

This is a cyclical argument. The reason they don't pay taxes, is because they're illegal. If you'd allow them to stay legally, they'd start paying taxes, thus removing this problem.


@Sabrina, I agree with your assessment, then. I suppose the first one was just worded a bit poorly. It is unfair to take away something you promised people only to give it others.

yes and yes.
And APA - yes.

 8-[
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Re: Re:
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2013, 11:29:56 AM »
Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Quote from: "Plu"
Quote
And Sorry.... but offering our military higher education should come first.

Why? This comment seems completely out of place from the rest of the post. I could understand "our own people", but "the military"?

As for feeling guilt for people who broke the law; if the alternative to breaking the law would be even worse for them and they're not really hurting anyone all too much, I can feel their pain and understand their reasoning, and realise that there might be something wrong with the law.

Well I also agree that our military personnel should be prioritized. Many people enter the service counting on the he military to pay their tuition. Its part of the deal. A deal that has people risking their lives in the service of our country. It really is quite hard to swallow that they are denied while people who aren't even citizens are financed.

As to your second point, I am not certain why I or the law should be required to show regard for illegal immigrants. The fact is that they use public services and don't pay taxes. That harms every taxpayer so their presence is hardly innocuous.

The law serves society above the individual, so while I recognize the personal tragedy of deportation I do not feel the law should be changed to accommodate those individuals at the expense of society.

Actually, many of them work and pay taxes using a fake SSN. Which means they pay payroll tax, Medicare, and Social Security, with no chance of ever using those benefits.
As a veteran, I'm not pleased that they suspended tuition assistance, but it is indeed only suspended, until they resolve this sequester business. The only cost involved with the Dream Act, is that there will be more students requesting aid, and in Colorado, the people that actually live there will be charged accordingly. It's not like they're giving them special treatment, or giving them money.
???  ??

(No subject)
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2013, 11:51:19 AM »
thanks Jumpty - thats truly helpful.  :yawinkle:
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

(No subject)
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2013, 12:04:13 PM »
I try, Sabrina, I try.  :wink:
???  ??

(No subject)
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2013, 12:34:44 PM »
I find the ' using a fake SSN'  disturbing.
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

 

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