Does Illegal mean 'illegal' or not?

Started by WitchSabrina, March 14, 2013, 12:28:22 PM

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WitchSabrina

This cannot be right.  WTF?



Posted from Facebook.  I've got people explaining to me that illegal immigrants can mean children born elsewhere yet raised here in America and they should have same tuition rights as other Americans?
Not quite sure I'm following the logic of that because I'm fairly certain I am fucking STUCK on the word: "Illegal" .

WTF??

(oh and meanwhile.....no joke.......our daughter was just told No $$$ for her ARMY tuition that she spent the past 10 yrs earning.  So as a family we're a bit confused - and teetering on outrage)
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Jmpty

It only means that these kids who actually grew up in Colorado don't have to pay out of state tuition rates, as they do now.
???  ??

SGOS

Quote from: "WitchSabrina"This cannot be right.  WTF?

[ Image ]

Posted from Facebook.  I've got people explaining to me that illegal immigrants can mean children born elsewhere yet raised here in America and they should have same tuition rights as other Americans?
Not quite sure I'm following the logic of that because I'm fairly certain I am fucking STUCK on the word: "Illegal" .

WTF??

(oh and meanwhile.....no joke.......our daughter was just told No $$$ for her ARMY tuition that she spent the past 10 yrs earning.  So as a family we're a bit confused - and teetering on outrage)
I get stuck on the illegal thing too.  There might be something I don't understand here, but to attend a state college and pay in state tuition, even as a legal citizen of the US, I had to be a legal resident of the state.  Oops, I may have answered your question while thinking this through out loud.

This is probably a bone thrown to the hispanic community, but when you think about it, it would be like someone coming to the US from Europe or anywhere else to attend a university.  We gladly accept them, but they pay out of state tuition, just like I would as a resident of Illinois attending a college in Montana.  On the surface it sounds like a law passed that doesn't change anything.

Your daughter is a different story.  That pisses me off too.  If she joined the army being told she would get help with college tuition, she should get that help.  You don't promise things to people and then change that later.  Yeah, our government probably has that power, and our politicians are a deceitful lot, although it sounds like something that will end up in court.

Edit:  Oops again.  I missed the part about lowering tuition rates for illegals.  I don't know what that's about.

stromboli

Pretty sure the military funding is due to the sequester. It affects both my sons. The other thing, no comment.

Colanth

Many people don't understand what "illegal" means.  I've heard many illegal aliens claim that since they've never committed any crime, they shouldn't be called illegal - not realizing, or refusing to accept, that just by being here they're committing a crime.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
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Jmpty

So, your parents brought you here illegally when you were 2, you grew up here went to school here, and now what? Send you "back" to a country that you don't even remember?
???  ??

Colanth

That's the law.  I'm not arguing "correct" or "just", I'm arguing grammar.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

AllPurposeAtheist

The law can say anything is legal, (up to a point) An example, An old fat guy or even young one with big manboobs can go shirtless in any town in America.. Try that next nice warm day Bri and see how quick you either get locked up or ticketed. It's the ol double standard and whatever lawmakers say is legal is, well..legal. Does it make it right? No, but legal and right seldom dwell in the same house. The law is loaded with such irregularities.

On a side note, those looking for veteran help, tuition, housing, etc.. Go visit your local VOA chapter. They often have veteran liason people better equipped to help than the VA. VOA=Volunteers of America
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SvZurich

So far the military funding due to sequester is affecting 3 out of 4 military branches, with the Navy not commenting.
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Shiranu

Quote from: "Jmpty"So, your parents brought you here illegally when you were 2, you grew up here went to school here, and now what? Send you "back" to a country that you don't even remember?

This.

I grew up with Mexican "illegals" in both Central Texas and New Mexico... I would say at least 65% (in my experience, take that as you will) of them are FAR better students than legal residents of the U.S., and 95% of them work FAR harder than your other Americans (doing jobs we wouldn't take).

Additionally the ones that make it to college work harder than your average American as well and WANT to be there/get a degree. And if the government will let them they would love to live here, pay taxes and be a productive member of society. So I have zero problem with them getting benefits.

(I should say though, I also don't particularly think there should be laws regarding what country you can or cant live in... if you are willing to obey the law, speak the language at work, pay taxes and contribute to society you should be allowed to live wherever you please. We should keep track of who moves in/out, but we should never bar someone who is willing to add to our income and culture. National borders are becoming more and more a thing of the past, especially in a nation of immigrants.)

------

As for the military, that sucks... but lets be honest... Americans and the government don't really give a fuck about the troops and this is nothing new. We have been fucking over our soldiers and vets for (I would wager) over a hundred years and it has just gotten worse and worse and worse.
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Brian37

Wasn't it Nixon who infamously said "It's not illegal when the President does it."?

I think all the political division up to this day is a result of him getting his hand caught in the cookie jar. You'd think that that was so long ago, but lots of dumbyas minions including Cheney were around politically back then and supporters of Nixon. I think the few old white men pulling the strings on that party have never gotten over the fact that their guy was a criminal.
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WitchSabrina

Well here's how out-of-touch I am on this subject:  I guess I assumed that a child growing up in America, attending American public schools, going to American doctors their whole lives at some point became AMERICAN ???  This HAS to be the reason we show So SO many 'illegals' in this country? W. T. F?  That's crazy.  
When a child grows up here why at some point are they not citizens?
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Nonsensei

Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Well here's how out-of-touch I am on this subject:  I guess I assumed that a child growing up in America, attending American public schools, going to American doctors their whole lives at some point became AMERICAN ???  This HAS to be the reason we show So SO many 'illegals' in this country? W. T. F?  That's crazy.  
When a child grows up here why at some point are they not citizens?

Because it creates a situation where our immigration laws are meaningless. So a family of 3 skips the fence. 15 years later they are discovered as illegal immigrants. People get upset because it is unfair to send the child back to a country he knows nothing about and has no roots in. Then they get upset with the idea of sending the parents back because then the kid will be alone.

The effect is that by breaking the law they have also circumvented it. Because of our disgusting negligence regarding our own immigration laws people outside the US have come to believe that our immigration laws are largely toothless and therefore they have a good chance of being able to enter the country illegally with no ramifications. Many likely view being caught and deported as extremely bad luck.

Making exceptions based on an emotional response only makes the problem worse. In the end if they hadn't entered the country illegally in the first place then we wouldn't have to figure out what to do with them. I refuse to feel guilt over deporting people that broke the law the very instant they stepped foot in our country.
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All alone in desperation now the time has come
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Day after day this misery must go on

WitchSabrina

Quote from: "Nonsensei"
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Well here's how out-of-touch I am on this subject:  I guess I assumed that a child growing up in America, attending American public schools, going to American doctors their whole lives at some point became AMERICAN ???  This HAS to be the reason we show So SO many 'illegals' in this country? W. T. F?  That's crazy.  
When a child grows up here why at some point are they not citizens?

Because it creates a situation where our immigration laws are meaningless. So a family of 3 skips the fence. 15 years later they are discovered as illegal immigrants. People get upset because it is unfair to send the child back to a country he knows nothing about and has no roots in. Then they get upset with the idea of sending the parents back because then the kid will be alone.

The effect is that by breaking the law they have also circumvented it. Because of our disgusting negligence regarding our own immigration laws people outside the US have come to believe that our immigration laws are largely toothless and therefore they have a good chance of being able to enter the country illegally with no ramifications. Many likely view being caught and deported as extremely bad luck.

Making exceptions based on an emotional response only makes the problem worse. In the end if they hadn't entered the country illegally in the first place then we wouldn't have to figure out what to do with them. I refuse to feel guilt over deporting people that broke the law the very instant they stepped foot in our country.


You make a lot of sense.  Apparently, this whole uproar (pic I posted) is over whats called "the Dream Act".  Where children and young adults are (somewhat) promised education here in the states.  
Well, never let it be said that I'd deny anyone education --- BUT --- I sure don't think my daughter should lose her tuition money from the ARMY while we agree - via Dream Act - to college educate **illegals**.
Sorry.....but if kids grow up here then they should be citizens and we can call them something ELSE and not illegal.  And Sorry.... but offering our military higher education should come first.

or...... am I crazy?
I am currently experiencing life at several WTFs per hour.

Plu

QuoteAnd Sorry.... but offering our military higher education should come first.

Why? This comment seems completely out of place from the rest of the post. I could understand "our own people", but "the military"?

As for feeling guilt for people who broke the law; if the alternative to breaking the law would be even worse for them and they're not really hurting anyone all too much, I can feel their pain and understand their reasoning, and realise that there might be something wrong with the law.