Why is God hiding? And why has this question been so overlooked?

[1liesalot]

Why is God hiding, exactly? I know this has gotten some air time of late, but it's come late to the party.  Surely a powerful argument for atheism because the theists have no answer for this/ Or if they do, what is that answer, exactly?

[Baruch]

There are really no answers, just excuses ... on G-d's part.  You just have no idea how busy His schedule is these days. ;-)

There are really three arguments, based on separating primary from secondary effects

#1 G-d is invisible by definition or by nature (like air aka spirit (means breath), only more thin).  But G-d is present by secondary effects (ID for example)

#2 G-d could be visible, but chooses not to ... either because we are too corrupt, or because we need to be taught a lesson, or out of childishness

#3 G-d is visible, but we are working with the wrong definition ... pantheism

I personally go with #3.

[Munch]

I just find it one of of those things I'd love to delve into with a theist. If god exists and is all powerful, why then does he hide from us? If he is all powerful, why then would he only show us things he created like heaven and hell once we die? Why is the absence of a physical form so needed in order to interact with him?

Also things like if he is all powerful, why then did he make the afterlife with only three choices, his heaven where he sits around, hell, which he also created, or limbo, the inbetween which is a hell onto itself. Why do his rules seem so rigid when he's meant to have created everything, and the complex aspects of nature with it.

But then, trying to ask these questions to a theist usually results in a playground standard "I don't know, it just does". Just a reminder that some people go on to want to broaden there mind, while other people are confined to that same mind set from secondary school.

[1liesalot]

There are really no answers, just excuses ... on G-d's part.  You just have no idea how busy His schedule is these days. ;-)

There are really three arguments, based on separating primary from secondary effects

#1 G-d is invisible by definition or by nature (like air aka spirit (means breath), only more thin).  But G-d is present by secondary effects (ID for example)

#2 G-d could be visible, but chooses not to ... either because we are too corrupt, or because we need to be taught a lesson, or out of childishness

#3 G-d is visible, but we are working with the wrong definition ... pantheism

I personally go with #3.

The mental contortions these people put themselves to.

[SGOS]

A theist would say he's not hiding, and that he will "reveal" himself if you just ask.  Then they follow up with personal testimony about how they have come to know god.  This is just apologetic bull.  Personal testimony from adults who claim the emperor has a fine suit of new clothes.  They can't let the next theist get a leg up, so pretty soon they're all having a personal relationship with God.  It's a religious circle jerk.

[Termin]

 He would caught up in lawsuits and legal troubles for decades if he were to show himself. :)

[CrucifyCindy]

Why is he in hiding? Well just like my daddy taught me...one must never go back to the scene of the crime. I am guessing he doesn't want to get popped by the popo.

[trdsf]

Why is God hiding, exactly? I know this has gotten some air time of late, but it's come late to the party.  Surely a powerful argument for atheism because the theists have no answer for this/ Or if they do, what is that answer, exactly?

The typical response to this is that it's apparently important to their god that one accepts his existence without proof, that faith is a virtue unto itself.

This argument rapidly fails under its own weight, since if faith is by definition a virtue, it must be a virtue no matter what's being believed in without evidence, and there's no way to narrow it down so that it applies only and specifically to their god.  As soon as it's defined in terms of faith in a god, it automatically presupposes that a god exists and loses any usefulness as an argument.

[jonb]

I think it may be possible gawd is trapped under a mountain gawd made that could not lifted, which gawd was trying to take to Mohamed. I feel sorry for gawd, it can't be nice to be caught by the paradoxes, it would certainly make my eyes water.

[1liesalot]

I just find it one of of those things I'd love to delve into with a theist. If god exists and is all powerful, why then does he hide from us? If he is all powerful, why then would he only show us things he created like heaven and hell once we die? Why is the absence of a physical form so needed in order to interact with him?

Also things like if he is all powerful, why then did he make the afterlife with only three choices, his heaven where he sits around, hell, which he also created, or limbo, the inbetween which is a hell onto itself. Why do his rules seem so rigid when he's meant to have created everything, and the complex aspects of nature with it.

But then, trying to ask these questions to a theist usually results in a playground standard "I don't know, it just does". Just a reminder that some people go on to want to broaden there mind, while other people are confined to that same mind set from secondary school.

To say nothing of his apparent reliance on Bronze Age goat herders and illiterates to spread the word.

[Baruch]

I just find it one of of those things I'd love to delve into with a theist. If god exists and is all powerful, why then does he hide from us? If he is all powerful, why then would he only show us things he created like heaven and hell once we die? Why is the absence of a physical form so needed in order to interact with him?

Also things like if he is all powerful, why then did he make the afterlife with only three choices, his heaven where he sits around, hell, which he also created, or limbo, the inbetween which is a hell onto itself. Why do his rules seem so rigid when he's meant to have created everything, and the complex aspects of nature with it.

But then, trying to ask these questions to a theist usually results in a playground standard "I don't know, it just does". Just a reminder that some people go on to want to broaden there mind, while other people are confined to that same mind set from secondary school.

The question of G-d, is the most complicated, and most simple question.  If the theologians fail, isn't it because they didn't actually know G-d at all?  The Medieval Christian version, relates to what it was like to be a European during that time period ... because religion is for the living, not the dead.  Also why talk to ignoramus types?  Helps a person feel smarter?  Talk to a real rabbi, and you will find you don't know anything.  Personally I don't believe in "not striving" .. I strive every day in every way.

[Baruch]

The mental contortions these people put themselves to.

Just like multi-universe string theory ... only with less maths ;-)

[Baruch]

A theist would say he's not hiding, and that he will "reveal" himself if you just ask.  Then they follow up with personal testimony about how they have come to know god.  This is just apologetic bull.  Personal testimony from adults who claim the emperor has a fine suit of new clothes.  They can't let the next theist get a leg up, so pretty soon they're all having a personal relationship with God.  It's a religious circle jerk.

Everything is BS ... all the way down.  But fortunately if that depresses someone, there are alternatives.  The meaning of life can't be handed to you, you have to create it yourself.  You are the hero/heroine of your own novel.

[Baruch]

I think it may be possible gawd is trapped under a mountain gawd made that could not lifted, which gawd was trying to take to Mohamed. I feel sorry for gawd, it can't be nice to be caught by the paradoxes, it would certainly make my eyes water.

This happened to the semi-divine Monkey King, in Chinese mythology.  It took a Buddhist monk, to free him, but only so he could go on pilgrimage to Amida Buddha to grow into a better monkey.

[Baruch]

To say nothing of his apparent reliance on Bronze Age goat herders and illiterates to spread the word.

The problem of the "original age of faith" ... is cowardice.  There are plenty of people today spreading whatever words they think they have ;-)