Parents of trans* 1st-grader file discrimination complaint

[Rin Hato]

Thought I'd mix the topic matter up a little :P

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/27/us/co ... index.html

A transgender rights group announced Wednesday that it has filed a discrimination complaint in Colorado on behalf of a first-grader who was born a boy but identifies as a girl.

The filing stems from a decision announced last December by officials at Fountain-Fort Carson School District that Coy Mathis could no longer use the girls' bathroom at Eagleside Elementary.

Mother Kathryn Mathis said she and her husband were shocked.

"We were very confused because everything was going so well, and they had been so accepting, and all of a sudden it changed and it was very confusing and very upsetting because we knew that, by doing that, she was going to go back to being unhappy," she told CNN. "It was going to set her up for a lot of bad things."

Coy was born with male sex organs but has identified as female since she could express herself, her mother said. The child had attended classes during her kindergarten year with no problems and no complaints from anyone at the school, Mathis told reporters at the Colorado Capitol in Denver,

Attorney Michael Silverman of the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund, which is representing Coy, said the complaint -- which was filed with the Colorado Civil Rights Division -- is intended to have an impact beyond a single family or school.

"For many transgender people, discrimination is a daily part of life. Unfortunately for Coy, it has started very early," he said, adding that the complaint is a "test of Colorado's Anti-Discrimination Act."

For most of the past year, Coy has dressed as a girl.

Coy's passport and state-issued identification recognize her as female.

I don't know about you, but this to me sounds like a clear-cut case of discrimination. Coy is even legally recognised as a girl, so why on Earth should she not be allowed access to the girl's bathrooms?

And the "but she has male genitals, think about all the 'real' girls in the bathroom, what will they think" angle? As far as I remember, you don't go to the toilet in full view of others, so what's the problem?

Unless I'm missing something, this all boils down to them saying that "it's weird and so we won't allow her to use the correct bathrooms" and as far as I know you can't discriminate against someone because they don't conform to your idea of what's normal.

The idea that it should all be okay because she can still use the neutral staff bathrooms is just infuriating.

Thoughts?

[Colanth]

1) I think there's another thread about Coy's situation.

2) The people protesting this are morons.  Until we can reprogram people's minds, people are just going to have to get used to transgenderism.  (And, considering the age of the kids "affected", the parents are missing a huge teaching moment.)

Hey - isn't it their god that created transgenderism?  Are they claiming that God is wrong?

[Rin Hato]

Is there?

Sorry, I didn't know. Is it still active or has it died?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Maybe I'm out of the loop here, but a TG 5 yr old? Really? How does anyone really know and did the parents just merely neglect to tell this kid that he is really a boy?
I have to plead ignorance here because I honestly don't know, but I can certainly see why others do not see it as discrimination, but rather the parents as a bit loopy.

[Colanth]

From what I know, Marty, and I'll defer to our resident experts on this one, children usually self-identify by gender by the age of 5.  That's both from reading and from the transgendered people I've had the pleasure of knowing.  I sure knew I was a boy and the girl who gave me my first kiss (at the age of 3) was a girl before I was 5.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I think 5 is still a bit early to slap the transgender label on a kid. What if he grows up to be a stud NFL linebacker with 5 hot cheerleader gf's, retires and becomes a porn star?

[SvZurich]

Maybe I'm out of the loop here, but a TG 5 yr old? Really? How does anyone really know and did the parents just merely neglect to tell this kid that he is really a boy?
I have to plead ignorance here because I honestly don't know, but I can certainly see why others do not see it as discrimination, but rather the parents as a bit loopy.

Most transpeople know who they are around 3-4 years old.  It's obvious to parents who actually pay attention to and listen to their children.  Most parents try to "beat it out of them for their own good".

[wolf39us]

Right but where does the line get drawn?  If you're a boy, you're a boy.  The girls bathroom is for females, the boys bathroom is for males.

Allowing this would break the separation of bathrooms...  May as well make unisex everything!  There'd literally be no point in separating them.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Maybe I'm out of the loop here, but a TG 5 yr old? Really? How does anyone really know and did the parents just merely neglect to tell this kid that he is really a boy?
I have to plead ignorance here because I honestly don't know, but I can certainly see why others do not see it as discrimination, but rather the parents as a bit loopy.

Most transpeople know who they are around 3-4 years old.  It's obvious to parents who actually pay attention to and listen to their children.  Most parents try to "beat it out of them for their own good".

So if Johnny likes playing with Barbies dress him up in satin and lace? There's far to much grey area to go making kids dress like the opposite sex at 5. I note the use of 'most', not all and definitely not all parents beat their kids.
That said, there's also a heavy burden on kids at this age and it seems far to easy of an out for parents to just let the child decide at 5..

[SvZurich]

Right but where does the line get drawn?  If you're a boy, you're a boy.  The girls bathroom is for females, the boys bathroom is for males.

Allowing this would break the separation of bathrooms...  May as well make unisex everything!  There'd literally be no point in separating them.

Actually, no.

Allowing this would be following the state law.  Colorado state law allows people to use the facilities that they identify as regardless of the body's physical parts.

And transsexual people argue correctly that if you are classified a boy and identify as a girl, you are a girl and must correct the body.  If you are classified a girl and identify as a boy, you are a boy and must correct the body.  The transsexual brain is wired almost identically to the normal brain of someone of the opposite physical sex.

[Rin Hato]

It's hard to understand what it's like being trans if you're not trans yourself.

I'm no expert on the relationship between Coy and her parents (and neither are you) but I would guess that Coy told her parents that she was a she, and not a he. I commend her parents for not discouraging her.

Being trans isn't something as simple as " I play with girls toys," it's identifying as the opposite/another gender that you were assigned at birth. What do you suggest? Telling the child that they're wrong and they're not a girl/boy, then waiting for a few years before actually believing them?

What would I do if I were to constantly say that you're a girl and not a boy, deride you for being so adamant that you're a boy? Bully you for it?

No trans person ever "decides" that they are trans. They know it, deep down somewhere.

[SvZurich]

That's the #1 reason why so many transpeople commit suicide.  A lifetime of being bullied to conform to a lie you can't believe, being made to feel worthless, and the threat of physical violence if you come out.  Suicide appears to be a smart decision.  They try their best to cope, and eventually they no longer can.  It's either transition or die.

[Rin Hato]

Exactly.

Telling Coy that she's a boy and is "just going through a phase" or is "confused" will only do harm.

Related: I'm infuriated by those who think HRT, hair removal, sex reassignment surgery etc are elective surgeries. They're not, they're necessary. Though not for all people, of course.

Transition is generally the only "cure."

[SvZurich]

Transition is also best when started young.  It's when one is forced through the wrong puberty that they gain features that will haunt them throughout their transition.

For FTMs, a female puberty forces upon them breasts to remove, shorter heights, and wider hips.  Much of that is hidden by taking testosterone.

For MTFs, a male puberty forces upon them height, broader shoulders, larger hands and feet, deep voices, possible adam's apples, wider jaws and chins, protruding brows, body hair, facial hair, and often male pattern baldness.  Then they are forced to spend hundreds to thousands of hours on electrolysis at great expense and pain, facial feminization surgeries, possible electro on chest and belly, wigs, voice training therapy, and more.

Just giving them HRT early on, and appropriate blockers, can prevent all of that and allow them to look and pass perfectly as the sex they want to be.  Just give them only SRS and they win.

Instead, by being bullied to conform to society's wishes, and forced to go through the wrong puberty, they will be easier to identify as trans, unhappier, and be forced to spend a lot of time and money fixing as much of the unwanted changes as they can.  They'll even be called selfish for transitioning, all because they want to be normal like everyone else by being aligned in body and mind, and instead others seek to prevent them from enjoying the same rights that they themselves have.

[Rin Hato]

It's horrible. Absolutely horrible.

If only there was that One Pill that did it all by magic, right? Or better yet, it wasn't possible to be trans; everyone was born with the right body for their head.

Though if that were the case, what would a gender-fluid person look like? Or a person who doesn't identify with either of the genders we have defined for ourselves?

Anyway, the sooner worldwide society embraces the T on the end of LGBT as much as some societies have embraced the rest, the better.