The New Pope is All down on Poverty and Shit

[stromboli]

Found it
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... f=religion

The election of Pope Francis, previously Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, has resurfaced a decades-old controversy surrounding the kidnappings of two Jesuit priests.

Bergoglio was a high-ranking official in the Society of Jesus of Argentina when a military junta was installed in the South American country in 1976. According to the Los Angeles Times, priests Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics were kidnapped in May of that year by the navy. "They surfaced five months later, drugged and seminude, in a field," the Times reported. A 2005 lawsuit accused Bergoglio of unspecified involvement in the abductions. Reuters explains that "the military government secretly jailed [Yorio and Jalics] for their work in poor neighborhoods."

A spokesman for Bergoglio called the claims "old slander."

Reuters has more details:

According to "The Silence," a book written by journalist Horacio Verbitsky, Bergoglio withdrew his order's protection of the two men after they refused to quit visiting the slums, which ultimately paved the way for their capture.
Verbitsky's book is based on statements by Orlando Yorio, one of the kidnapped Jesuits, before he died of natural causes in 2000. Both of the abducted clergymen survived five months of imprisonment.

"History condemns him. It shows him to be opposed to all innovation in the Church and above all, during the dictatorship, it shows he was very cozy with the military," Fortunato Mallimacci, the former dean of social sciences at the Universidad de Buenos Aires, once said.

Those who defend Bergoglio say there is no proof behind these claims and, on the contrary, they say the priest helped many dissidents escape during the military junta's rule.

[SGOS]

I'm wondering if that will hang around to haunt the Pope, or if it will quickly go away.  It sure didn't take much time to surface after the Pope's appointment.

[SGOS]

but this guy doesn't seem like anything special. Even all the talk about this being historic because of his nationality doesn't make sense, because he's Italian for all intents and purposes.

It's interesting being a non-believer and watching the news coverage go on hour after hour and day after day about such a ridiculous event.  NPR was trying to investigate the "specialness" of this new guy.  Their correspondent followed him wherever she could, and one of the few things she was allowed to watch was a mass he gave for the cardinals.  Every nuance of his behavior was under the microscope, and from every nuance, she extrapolated great possibilities.  In the end, the correspondent admitted that everyone expects whatever they want to come from a new boss, but at this point, she really could not really predict anything at all.  Why did NPR bother with this report?  It was nothing but useless filler.

[Mathias]

but this guy doesn't seem like anything special. Even all the talk about this being historic because of his nationality doesn't make sense, because he's Italian for all intents and purposes.

Born and raised in Argentina, why is he Italian?

[BarkAtTheMoon]

but this guy doesn't seem like anything special. Even all the talk about this being historic because of his nationality doesn't make sense, because he's Italian for all intents and purposes.

Born and raised in Argentina, why is he Italian?

Both his parents are Italian immigrants, and he's first generation born in Argentina. While he is Argentinian by birth, it's certainly pretty silly that he's being described as the first Latino pope when he's 100% Italian on both sides.

[Mathias]

Disagree, until we can be greatly influenced by our parents,  we are born, grow and engage with the culture of a country about to be involved in this story, it's silly not to consider it with such (in this case argentine). My maternal grandparents were son and daughter of Italians and Brazilians who were more than many Brazilians I met !
What makes a good part of person's culture and nationality is precisely the place he lives.

[Mathias]

but this guy doesn't seem like anything special. Even all the talk about this being historic because of his nationality doesn't make sense, because he's Italian for all intents and purposes.

Born and raised in Argentina, why is he Italian?

Both his parents are Italian immigrants, and he's first generation born in Argentina. While he is Argentinian by birth, it's certainly pretty silly that he's being described as the first Latino pope when he's 100% Italian on both sides.

Disagree, until we can be greatly influenced by our parents, we are born, grow and engage with the culture of a country about to be involved in this story, it's silly not to consider it with such (in this case argentine). My maternal grandparents were son and daughter of Italians and Brazilians who were more than many Brazilians I met !
What makes a good part of person's culture and nationality is precisely the place he lives.

[zacherystaylor]

I want to know this guy's connections with the militias that killed so many innocents just a few decades ago.

I see stromboli beat me to it but heres a little more on the subject.

"In 2005, human rights lawyer Myriam Bregman filed a criminal suit against Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, accusing him of conspiring with the military junta in the 1976 kidnapping of two Jesuit priests. ...."

"In 2010, the survivors of the "Dirty War" accused Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of complicity in the kidnapping of two members of the Society of Jesus Francisco Jalics y Orlando Yorio. ....."

"The accusations directed against Bergoglio regarding the two kidnapped Jesuit priests are but the tip of the iceberg. The entire Catholic hierarchy was behind the Military Junta. According to lawyer Myriam Bregman: "Bergoglio's own statements proved church officials knew from early on that the junta was torturing and killing its citizens, and yet publicly endorsed the dictators. "The dictatorship could not have operated this way without this key support,"..... "

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington ... ar/5326675

Horacio Verbitsky, cited by Stromboli, also appeared on Democracy Now last night with some of the same material.

[stromboli]

My hope is that this guy, now under a lot of scrutiny because of his predecessor, stays under scrutiny. His stand against LGBTs Gay adoption and marriage already puts him in the headlights of a few groups. Personally I think he will be more of a Nazi than Benedict was.

[Bigot Burner]

Being Argentinian, I'm personally quite worried of the fact that this guy is both openly against our government (which is anything but great to begin with, but still) and has a massive influence here, considering that a majority of the population is Catholic. He seems like a better guy than the last old fucker, yes, but I still have a bad feeling about the whole thing.

[Mathias]

I agree with Stromboli,

Of course that is my opinion, but any person religious or not, who supported the military dictatorship has a jaundiced view of society. Here in Brazil the era of dictatorship is called "lead years" and not by chance. I graduated in History and am very much in favor the view that the military government literally screwed Brazil in all aspects.

[Colanth]

Found it
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... f=religion

and above all, during the dictatorship, it shows he was very cozy with the military," Fortunato Mallimacci, the former dean of social sciences at the Universidad de Buenos Aires, once said.

Does this sound a bit like Pius XII to anyone else?

[NeoLogic26]

Disagree, until we can be greatly influenced by our parents,  we are born, grow and engage with the culture of a country about to be involved in this story, it's silly not to consider it with such (in this case argentine). My maternal grandparents were son and daughter of Italians and Brazilians who were more than many Brazilians I met !
What makes a good part of person's culture and nationality is precisely the place he lives.

Yeah, except Argentina has a relatively large immigrant population, particularly from countries like Italy and Germany. And one thing about immigrants is that they tend to gather around each other to preserve aspects of their native culture. Seems likely he could have been surrounded by other Italian immigrants growing up and thus his cultural upbringing wouldn't have been substantially different in many respects than it would have been in Italy.

[stromboli]

He is a first generation Argentinian raised by Italian Catholic parents. I say it is logical to assume he inherited much of their baggage, so to think of him strictly as Argentinian is a mistake. He was elected in Italy by a largely Italian conclave, so I think he is as much Italian as any of them.

Whatever. He carries the same 13th century baggage as they all do, so fuck em'.

[MilitantAtheist]

I don't see what the big deal is. He's 76 and missing a lung, this sonofabitch will be dead or dying in a few years and they'll find some other old fucker to hate gays, women, and cover for pedophiles.