Feminist Frequency

[Shiranu]

//https://www.youtube.com/user/feministfrequency

Don't know if yall have seen any of her videos, but they are pretty good. I don't necessarily completely agree with all of her videos, but for the most part I do. Mostly deals with women's portrayal in media.

[youtube:1gcmxkja]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCUrtFnofQM[/youtube:1gcmxkja]

[youtube:1gcmxkja]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD0Faha2gow[/youtube:1gcmxkja]

Edit: Why does the youtube never work anymore?

Mod edit - it does work if you do it right.  Change the https to http, delete the extra stuff after the video code, and use youtube instead of youtubehd.  Click "edit" or "quote" to see what it looks like when done properly.

[NitzWalsh]

delete the s from the end of the http, and delete the & and everything right of it to the end of the url.

Also, I've seen some of her videos and agree, pretty good, but don't agree with all of it.

[Sal1981]

Very good videos.

[SilentFutility]

My main gripe with feminism yet again.
All of her videos are about how terrible the given aspect of society is towards women, how it objectifies them, how it gives them unrealistic ideals, how it makes certain behaviour towards them acceptable etc. etc.

Virtually ALL of her examples could be applied to men. For example, she cherry picks adverts which objectify women, showing women with amazing bodies etc. etc. Ever seen a calvin klein underwear advert with a guy with a normal physique? Doubt it. I have however, seen adverts which use 'normal' female models, such as Dove soap ones. If anything the physique of the ideal male body used in advertising and the media is more unrealistic than a slim, toned female, but this is irrelevant.

The unrealistic bodies of female video game characters? Yeah, and hugely muscular male video game characters are completely realistic.

The adverts and tv shows where women are oblivious and are manipulated by men for comic effect? I have yet to see an American sitcom where a man being effortlessly manipulated by his female partner isn't the butt of many jokes, often multiple times an episode.

This is turning absolutely everything into a men vs. women issue, with a victim's attitude, and ignores the ACTUAL issues, such as the media portraying unrealistic ideals in general, which is a problem that should be, and could be addressed if people recognised it instead of ignoring the actual issue and fingerpointing.

[widdershins]

Feminists always remind me of Rush Limbaugh and the term he popularized for any woman who is outspoken about being deserving of equal rights, "feminazi".  You know, because that Nazis were all about equal rights and all.  I fucking hate Rush.  The man and the band.

[Sal1981]

I've viewed a lot of her videos now. I must  be missing a point, because we do still live in a patriarchal world. Also, in her videos she makes a clear distinction between outright femnazism and what can only be described as equality. Although I do have to agree that some of her fingerpointing are mere extrapolations.

[La Dolce Vita]

The unrealistic bodies of female video game characters? Yeah, and hugely muscular male video game characters are completely realistic.

The distinction being that the hugely muscular male is designed more for the males playing out their fantasies, not for women to enjoy their looks. If games were designed that way guys would look like Justin Bieber and the guys from One Direction + Twilight.  :-D

But I do agree to a degree. And certain aspects of some of her videos that I have seen in the past (not seen the two above yet) display her seeing ideology over facts. I'm usually in agreement with her though, and she makes good videos, it's just some slight things that rub me the wrong way sometimes - but that's how it is with essentially any public persona. If you listen to them enough you will hear one of two views you consider misrepresented, badly interpreted or just wrong. I got big or small disagreements even with my "heroes" so I won't really hold that against her. She can be both insightful and informative.

It is the case though that people argueing in the name of feminism often ignore the case of men. I do understand your issue there. It would have been better if everyone got together under the label of equality trying to make this as real as possible for all groups. But considering the state of female rights in most places of the world women do deserve the hightened focus.

[SvZurich]

We do live in a patriarchal society.  Look how CNN was defending two rapists recently and not giving a damn about the victim.  Look how society tells women to avoid certain clothing to avoid getting raped, but does not tell men to not rape women.  Look how women were denied service in combat roles in the military, and are still not part of Selected Service Registration.  Look at the pay gap between the sexes.  Look how FTMs are looked up to as bettering themselves, while MTFs are looked down on as lowering themselves.  Our society is not equal.  Look at the crap Fallon Fox is going through in spite of legally being a woman.

Still, it is getting better, and we can force it to improve faster.

[SilentFutility]

The unrealistic bodies of female video game characters? Yeah, and hugely muscular male video game characters are completely realistic.

The distinction being that the hugely muscular male is designed more for the males playing out their fantasies, not for women to enjoy their looks. If games were designed that way guys would look like Justin Bieber and the guys from One Direction + Twilight.  :-D

Exactly. Justin Bieber, One Direction, and Twilight are examples of how the media markets unrealistic ideals to both sexes, they just aim it at different genders based on what they are more likely to spend money on. Taylor Lautner walking around with his shirt off in every Twilight film? Same thing as using exagerrated ideal female physiques in media men are more likely to consume, such as video games. Ever seen a boyband consisting of middle-aged guys with a few extra pounds? No, they're all youthful, typically good-looking with haircuts that cost more than some people's cars.

The marketing of unrealistic ideals is absolutely NOT a problem restricted to objectifying the female form, and it is not an issue of inequality, it is an issue of an unregulated media doing what it takes to sell things/make money. Whether or not it should be regulated is a separate debate, but that's the point, it is a separate debate but examples of it are being cherry-picked to pander an agenda.

But I do agree to a degree. And certain aspects of some of her videos that I have seen in the past (not seen the two above yet) display her seeing ideology over facts. I'm usually in agreement with her though, and she makes good videos, it's just some slight things that rub me the wrong way sometimes - but that's how it is with essentially any public persona. If you listen to them enough you will hear one of two views you consider misrepresented, badly interpreted or just wrong. I got big or small disagreements even with my "heroes" so I won't really hold that against her. She can be both insightful and informative.

It is the case though that people argueing in the name of feminism often ignore the case of men. I do understand your issue there. It would have been better if everyone got together under the label of equality trying to make this as real as possible for all groups. But considering the state of female rights in most places of the world women do deserve the hightened focus.

I'm not saying that inequality issues should be ignored. I'm saying that issues of inequality should be presented as they are, and examined as they are in the cold light of day. It is a fact that there's a pay gap, for example, which is a relevant issue that affects people's lives.

If people just take other issues and use them to justify an us versus them mentality not only are they not helping but they're making it worse by muddling up the real issues with society, making it difficult to take the real issues of inequality seriously as they're difficult to pick out from the tides of made-up crap and generally just creating hostility and annoying people by picking little fights over things that have nothing to do with the real issue.

For example, if I wanted to create a change with society, I would actually push for that change, quantify the issue, raise people's awareness about the FACTS of gender-based wealth distribution, in fact, fuck it, I'd raise awareness about ALL issues of inequality if I claimed to be fighting inequality, without being judgemental and intellectually dishonest, and alongside exposing people to the facts, I'd either ask for suggestions/solutions, or push for a potential solution to be brought into the public's awareness if I could think of one.

However, the majority of people don't want to hear pragmatic, honest fact-finding and problem-solving, they want outrage and the feel-good factor of a holier than thou attitude. If that woman told me she didn't watch any films that objectified men, or bought any products with adverts that objectified men I would laugh in her face for having the sheer audacity to justify sitting on her moral high horse pointing out supposed examples of it whilst fuelling the same culture herself, just like the vast majority of us do. Oh wait, she only watched Twilight ironically because everyone should hate it because the male protagonist is far from the perfect boyfriend, according to one of her videos.

So, in summary, I'm not arguing that inequality is not an issue. I'm saying that it is a very serious issue, and that it therefore deserves to be taken seriously and discussed seriously; a process which has a vague chance of producing some practical solutions to the issue, unlike the attention-seeking victim-playing seen in all of her videos I wasted my time watching.

[La Dolce Vita]

You will have a hard time argueing that men are sexualized to the same level females are by the media.  :P

But I certainly agree with a lot of your points. The second last paragraph is a bit like attacking a windmill though, unless she has actually made the claim that she has never brought products with adverts that objectified men. I'm certainly not an expert on her, she could have, but that doesn't sound likely. I think her point is to show inequality/problems against women, hence the name (and I have seen her talk negatively of problems that harm men as well, her Lego vid for example). I don't see anything wrong with focusing on just one group in this sense. Are you gonna attack organizations that help Africa for no helping the middle east, or the starving homeless on the streets in their own country? Focus tends to have great effects, everyone can't work at making everything better so they split up the work.

[La Dolce Vita]

Ok, I just watched those videos and I'm afraid to say that though I've often agreed with her in the past here she makes so many laughable and facepalm worthy logical mistakes it's ridiculous.

For example, the beer commercial is in no way sexist the way she identifies it. There's The one aspect that could be sexist is him needing to lie to her, making the stereotype that women control their significent other. That's what could potentially be effective. The fact that she falls for a lie does not paint her as stupid, and certainly doesn't paint her as stupid for being a woman.

The other "lying significant other" add isn't really sexist either, or again, not in the way she describes. Sure it uses stereotypes, and portrays females to sexual objects (the latter she didn't even point out), but the point was the Quick made you quick in thought, not that the woman was stupid. Quite the opposite in fact, as that would defeat the point.

(Not that these adds aren't dumb)

I also thinks she's way off about the robot commercials. They are machines not women. The shaving commercial for example is not painting women as slaves but making their product seem sensual and attractive to the male. No mysogony in that. I'm also shocked that she does not appear to know what mysogony is. By her logic all the women who bought the Justin Bieber sex doll hates men. Unsound logic deluxe.

I'm disappointed. I have really enjoyed a lot of her other work. :(

[Nonsensei]

We do live in a patriarchal society.  Look how CNN was defending two rapists recently and not giving a damn about the victim.  Look how society tells women to avoid certain clothing to avoid getting raped, but does not tell men to not rape women.  Look how women were denied service in combat roles in the military, and are still not part of Selected Service Registration.  Look at the pay gap between the sexes.  Look how FTMs are looked up to as bettering themselves, while MTFs are looked down on as lowering themselves.  Our society is not equal.  Look at the crap Fallon Fox is going through in spite of legally being a woman.

Still, it is getting better, and we can force it to improve faster.

I think its hard to justify the statement that society doesn't tell men not to rape. Its illegal, and when men get convicted they go to prison. If that isn't society telling men not to rape, what is?

Conversely there is no law on the books penalizing women for dressing a certain way. The only place where your assertion holds up is in the realm of public discourse, a place where fucking retards scream the loudest.

[SvZurich]

Nonsensai, did you not see CNN wail about the promising bright future of two young rapists being forever tarnished because they are on a sex offender list, poor them?  And they only get 1 year in Juvie, for RAPE!  No mention of the victim and what she must go through to rebuild her life.  Yes, all of the kids were drunk, but sex with a woman who is not coherent to give permission is RAPE.  And those "poor young men" are convicted rapists who only have to give up a year.  Disgusting.  In the US, the onus is still placed on women to watch how we dress, where we go, who we hang out with.  We hear "boys will be boys and you have to expect that from men".  Bullshit!  Now look up rape and sexual assault stats for the US.  You're damn right I am armed.

Kimmie, gun owner.

[Nonsensei]

Nonsensai, did you not see CNN wail about the promising bright future of two young rapists being forever tarnished because they are on a sex offender list, poor them?  And they only get 1 year in Juvie, for RAPE!  No mention of the victim and what she must go through to rebuild her life.  Yes, all of the kids were drunk, but sex with a woman who is not coherent to give permission is RAPE.  And those "poor young men" are convicted rapists who only have to give up a year.  Disgusting.  In the US, the onus is still placed on women to watch how we dress, where we go, who we hang out with.  We hear "boys will be boys and you have to expect that from men".  Bullshit!  Now look up rape and sexual assault stats for the US.  You're damn right I am armed.

Kimmie, gun owner.

I saw it and its disgraceful. But I am unwilling to make a generalization about society based on that. If theres anything ive learned its that what we say and what we do are two very different things.

I think its worth mentioning that CNN is part of the public discourse that I described as being dominated by screaming retards, and news anchors are no exception.

I also think its worth mentioning that these perpetrators will never really stop paying for their crime by virtue of being on the sex offenders list.

[Sal1981]

I also thinks she's way off about the robot commercials. They are machines not women. The shaving commercial for example is not painting women as slaves but making their product seem sensual and attractive to the male. No mysogony in that. I'm also shocked that she does not appear to know what mysogony is. By her logic all the women who bought the Justin Bieber sex doll hates men. Unsound logic deluxe.

I guess she just thought that men having sex toys is unfair to women (?). I don't view a man with a fleshlight any different than a woman owning a vibrator - so yeah, she's way off on that one. Or maybe it's because the robot looks like a woman that she makes an equation sign to misogyny (especially in that shaving and beerkeg commercial).

In the end, it should be about equality, and there are fires on both sides to put out.