A more complete view on my religious views

[dtq123]

Is it your position that we "feel" better because of religion or that we "are" better? Is this about the psyche or our actual conditions of life? Spiritual or being able to feed oneself?

A bit of both, some psychotic people get a tad bit more sane with religion, but that is a very small minority. So it's that we "feel" better because of religion. It was more for the psyche that religion was developed. As I have stated before, nihilism is not good for society

And we do know how religion became successful. They killed whomever disagreed. It really is that simple. Once you kill all those opposed it becomes simple cultural dogma enforced by fear which over time becomes not so fearful as the laws are now known and followed thus less punishment thus more acceptance.

Killing is part of manipulation, but should be used sparingly. Many people convert because of too much cruelty in Christianity's past. Even now, many Christians are tired of being accused as hypocritical, and this dissonance between desires and scriptures will lead many more to convert from Christianity, thus making it less acceptable.

It's hard for me to get my point across at times, feel free to ask for clarification as needed.

[Mike Cl]

After finding meaning in life, many atheists say that life is inherently better than death (under most circumstances). Thus it can be said that this judgement is fairly sound, since many atheist have also put a lot of time and effort into their current philosophy.

However, people in a nihilistic state often are traumatized by this cold realization, and are unable to make proper judgement calls, thus making it difficult for them to make rational decisions.

I may be mistaken, but you seem to link atheism with a nihilistic state.  I don't see the link.  As an atheist, I feel I have a purpose in life.  I don't need a god to give it to me.  Nor a religion.  And understand that not all atheists think the same way.  We are not like a religion in which we all think alike.  Quite the opposite.  One size does not fit all for atheists.  All we are united about is that there is not god/gods.  That's it. 

You also seem to suggest that religion gives one morals.  I don't get my morals from religion.  The commonly agreed upon morals are actually generated from the society in which one lives.  Religion may be a part of that, but the religious sector is not the sole (nor even best) judge of what is moral and what is not.  It is a group effort, and it is constantly changing.  As for my own morals, I developed them myself.  And they are changing, as well, but not necessarily the same way as the society in which I live--and for sure not the same as any religion I am aware of.  For example, I think that christianity is without morals in that one can excuse any act by finding support for it in the bible.   

[dtq123]

I may be mistaken, but you seem to link atheism with a nihilistic state.  I don't see the link.  As an atheist, I feel I have a purpose in life.  I don't need a god to give it to me.  Nor a religion.  And understand that not all atheists think the same way.  We are not like a religion in which we all think alike.  Quite the opposite.  One size does not fit all for atheists.  All we are united about is that there is not god/gods.  That's it. 

I'll bite the bullet and say this:
Some people can leap the gap between a meaningful religious life and a meaningful atheist life.
However, others find it difficult because there is a void where religion was that gave them meaning in life, does this clear things up?

You also seem to suggest that religion gives one morals.  I don't get my morals from religion.  The commonly agreed upon morals are actually generated from the society in which one lives.  Religion may be a part of that, but the religious sector is not the sole (nor even best) judge of what is moral and what is not.  It is a group effort, and it is constantly changing.

You're right, you don't actually "get" anything from religion. I never said that religion was the best judge of morality, or I'd still be catholic

Religion... "reinforces" certain "family values" to put it best... I'm not sure how to describe it.

[dtq123]

If anyone sees any contradiction in my thinking, do point it out.

Not only this is fun, this has become vital to me as my view on religion is at stake.

The more the merrier ^_^"

[Munch]

I'll bite the bullet and say this:
Some people can leap the gap between a meaningful religious life and a meaningful atheist life.
However, others find it difficult because there is a void where religion was that gave them meaning in life, does this clear things up?

There are many in this generation now, in more advanced cultures, that simply didn't have that belief in a god or afterlife in the first place, or took it that its what some people believe but don't themselves, and given the growing amount of atheists and non believers each generation, I'd say more people find purpose in life without religion being the false hope it was generations before.

For those who did live by a faith, and then cast it off, they likely did/do find a void when they realize there isn't anything what was told to them by preachers and the bible. Their goal, comes to finding that purpose in life and to make it meaningful, to make the most of it and enjoy the best life has to offer.

I've grown to accept the fact, it doesn't matter that there is nothing after we die, its the fact that we are here in the first place to experience life, and to understand so much of the universe and world around us, that makes it meaningful.

[Mike Cl]

Religion... "reinforces" certain "family values" to put it best... I'm not sure how to describe it.

I keep hearing that term used--'family values'.  I find it rather meaningless.  The people who spout that usually want to control what that means, exactly.  And how it is achieved.  How does religion reinforce that, anyway?  By do as I say and not as I do?  What religion does best is hypocrisy--and family values area is no exception.

[dtq123]

By do as I say and not as I do?

That sounds about it XD

[aitm]

. As I have stated before, nihilism is not good for societ

You'll have to do better than blanket statements. What kind of evidence can you provide that would give us an idea that you're close.

[dtq123]

You'll have to do better than blanket statements. What kind of evidence can you provide that would give us an idea that you're close.

No moral principles develops most often into suicide because of the fact that once people abandon religion, they don't plan ahead and give themselves a purpose to live for other than what religion had provided.

(I recognize this is a claim made by many believers, but I stand by it anyway X3)

[Mike Cl]

No moral principles develops most often into suicide because of the fact that once people abandon religion, they don't plan ahead and give themselves a purpose to live for other than what religion had provided.

(I recognize this is a claim made by many believers, but I stand by it anyway X3)

I have not seen this in my life--and I find it hard to swallow that a person who figures out there is no god, gets so depressed that he goes out and offs himself.  I think that the effect of coming to a realization there is not god would be so freeing that it would be a time of celebration.

[dtq123]

I have not seen this in my life--and I find it hard to swallow that a person who figures out there is no god, gets so depressed that he goes out and offs himself.  I think that the effect of coming to a realization there is not god would be so freeing that it would be a time of celebration.

I have a heavy bias on this situation. I myself, and several friends went through this sort of process, except the suicide part. I was able to recover quickly due to my friends, and we have a little group at school where we talk about ethics with other people, and I'm emailing a couple of them who seem really interested in talking a lot.

Anyway, this was how I experienced it, and I spread it around to my friends. Sure we survived, but each of my friends told me they probably wouldn't have made it were it not for each other

._.

Yeah... Gloomy life I live in.

[Mike Cl]

I have a heavy bias on this situation. I myself, and several friends went through this sort of process, except the suicide part. I was able to recover quickly due to my friends, and we have a little group at school where we talk about ethics with other people, and I'm emailing a couple of them who seem really interested in talking a lot.

Anyway, this was how I experienced it, and I spread it around to my friends. Sure we survived, but each of my friends told me they probably wouldn't have made it were it not for each other

._.

Yeah... Gloomy life I live in.

We are unique and we have different life experiences.  I'm glad you guys had each other. 

My current wife was a life long catholic--no calls herself a recovering catholic.  Just prior to my meeting her, she had her 'come to jesus moment' with her church.  It dawned on her just how much of a hypocrite the church was.  From there the trip into atheism was gradual and steady.  I've been around others who went from christian to atheist, but not all that many.  Hey--whatever works, works--keep on supporting each other.

[Baruch]

Since this isn't being relocated ... I have had to deal with two attempted suicides ... one of which was successful.  Anyone contemplating offing themselves (and this most often happens with teen males and men in their 50s) needs to get professional medical assistance at once.  In the medical community, we are drilled on this constantly, just as much as on CPR and AED (the other one is how to deal with rape victims).

I think that people commit suicide for lots of reasons, and become atheists for lots of reasons.  It is possible, at least for a few people that their nihilism drives them to atheism.  It is also possible, at least for a few people that their nihilism drives them to attempt suicide.  I think it is a stretch to connect the two as a chain.

If being atheist relieves some existential pain (though it may create social problems) then it is a good thing.  I suspect being a nihilist is pathological, an activist nihilist perhaps being defined as a sociopath.  Human beings are normally social and optimistic ... even if there are problems with that.  Being antisocial and pessimistic ... over long periods is clinical.  Short "blue" periods are normal, but you have to learn to manage it, how to get thu to the light at the end of the tunnel, even if it is a train going the wrong way ;-)

[dtq123]

Thanks for the support and critique, I needed it since my own beliefs weren't clear before I posted this.

[Baruch]

Talking with others or writing it down, forces you to articulate.  Often if you read what you wrote, a few days later, you think ... "Who was that guy!".