Author Topic: Rate the latest movie you've seen.  (Read 342617 times)

Offline Hydra009

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4275 on: June 11, 2019, 08:03:30 PM »
Also, Mr Smith was The One, not Neo.

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Much more succinct version of the above video:

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« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 08:26:22 PM by Hydra009 »

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4276 on: June 11, 2019, 08:07:04 PM »
Anyone who expects movies to be logically consistent had better get used to disappointment.
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"Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child,"
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Offline Baruch

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4277 on: June 11, 2019, 09:22:39 PM »
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Anyone who expects movies to be logically consistent had better get used to disappointment.

Anyone who expects ancient literature to be logically consistent had better get used to disappointment.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4278 on: June 11, 2019, 09:28:28 PM »
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Anyone who expects movies to be logically consistent had better get used to disappointment.

Eh, depends on the genre and the quality of the director. There are plenty of wonderfully consistent movies.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Shiranu

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4279 on: June 11, 2019, 09:31:52 PM »
Quote
I don't see #2 as being at all relevant.

If it is a simulation, they aren't actually harvesting the humans for energy; it's just a story they tell the humans who "escape" the Matrix to make them feel good about themselves and like they are wise. Their motive in this simulation could be anything because there is no actual gain or loses to be had. It just has to be convincing enough for the humans, and if you lived your entire life in a simulation and then believed you were yanked out into the "real" world where machines are out to get you (and seeing people be killed by those machines)... you wouldn't take the time to question if it made sense, and if you did... it wouldn't matter, you are still fighting for your life.

Which itself is a very interesting philosophical train of thought to go down.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Shiranu

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4280 on: June 11, 2019, 09:35:39 PM »
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Well, part of the reason the machines did that to the humans was because the humans were seen as a threat. By trapping the humans in the Matrix, they've got the humans under control.

Maybe, but I'm not entirely sure that's why. Perhaps the Matrix is running exactly as intended; a giant simulation to keep humanity entertained. Perhaps the "real world" really is a wasteland, and humans are just existing in vats controlled by robots programmed to keep them alive.  Like the architect says, it cant be a utopia otherwise people would catch on... but by keeping it the way it is, humanity doesn't reach that third level of awareness of realizing both the Matrix, and the "real world", are just simulations.

However a baby raised in the Matrix from birth could be indoctrinated to not see utopia as a simulation, so there are certainly holes in that theory that could be torn open.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4281 on: June 11, 2019, 10:32:07 PM »
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Maybe, but I'm not entirely sure that's why. Perhaps the Matrix is running exactly as intended; a giant simulation to keep humanity entertained. Perhaps the "real world" really is a wasteland, and humans are just existing in vats controlled by robots programmed to keep them alive.  Like the architect says, it cant be a utopia otherwise people would catch on... but by keeping it the way it is, humanity doesn't reach that third level of awareness of realizing both the Matrix, and the "real world", are just simulations.

However a baby raised in the Matrix from birth could be indoctrinated to not see utopia as a simulation, so there are certainly holes in that theory that could be torn open.

I don't think it would make a difference if I baby were raised to believe a Utopian Matrix was reality. The implication is that a harsh simulation is intrinsically more convincing. And a agree. A world that doesn't conform to your desires feels real, while a Utopian world feels like a dream. Plus, when you're struggling to survive, you're too busy to think hard enough about the simulation to see through it.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Hydra009

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4282 on: June 11, 2019, 10:50:12 PM »
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Maybe, but I'm not entirely sure that's why. Perhaps the Matrix is running exactly as intended; a giant simulation to keep humanity entertained.
I'm not sure "entertained" is the right word.  Pacified?  Compliant?

We know two things for certain about the machines:
1) they were created by humans
2) they want to keep humans alive (otherwise, humanity would be gone entirely)

My theory is that the machines are thoroughly investigating humans, trying to learn exactly what makes us tick down to the finest detail.  The Matrix, in addition to pacifying humans, serves another function: allowing the machines to expose humans to stimuli and observe the results.

The Matrix is a laboratory as much as it is a penal colony.

Its function: to allow the machines to learn from humanity.  Learn what?  Unknown at this point.  Perhaps a certain spontaneity and rule-bending that the machines currently lack.  A more organic, less rigid perspective.  Perhaps to learn a way to make a true utopian virtual world in which machines and humans are true equals.  Perhaps...

Quote
Perhaps the "real world" really is a wasteland, and humans are just existing in vats controlled by robots programmed to keep them alive.
My hunch is that the real world is indeed a wasteland, but it's actually worse than what Neo and company think.  It's despoiled to the point that it's basically unlivable for humans and barely livable for machines.  That's why humans can never truly break free from the Matrix - and why the machines are willing to go to such great lengths to keep it operational.  They need humans, and so they need humans to survive.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 10:53:28 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Shiranu

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4283 on: June 12, 2019, 10:40:33 PM »
Rewatching The Matrix now...

1. Why does the machine let him live when he is unplugged from the Matrix? It stares at him, with tools and weapons in hand ready to end his life, and then decides to just fly off and flush him down the garbage drain where Morpheus and the crew find him. It seems like the A.I., fighting the humans, would kill anyone they detected escaping the Matrix rather than just let them live and even help them escape.

Perhaps it's in their programming to maintain that second layer of Matrix? Or perhaps studying the rebel humans is a goal of theirs.

2. Where do babies come from? It might be answered in the series and I've forgotten, but why does two people in the Matrix having sex result in a baby? Do the machines hunt down the semen of the actual bodies and impregnate their female, or is it an artificial insemination type situation?
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Hydra009

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4284 on: June 12, 2019, 11:59:11 PM »
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2. Where do babies come from? It might be answered in the series and I've forgotten, but why does two people in the Matrix having sex result in a baby? Do the machines hunt down the semen of the actual bodies and impregnate their female, or is it an artificial insemination type situation?
It's not explained exactly.

Morpheus says "human beings are no longer born, we are grown" but it's not clear if he's talking about humans literally being incubated then hooked into the matrix as babies or figuratively (humans are treated like livestock or crops)

The exact details are pretty nebulous and come to think of it, it does seem kinda illogical that two bluepills in a relationship in the virtual world would have a kid who is their biological kid even though they could be hundreds of miles away IRL.  (Seems like a lot of effort for something I seriously doubt the machines care all that much about)

But my theory is that human offspring are mostly neither born nor grown...

THEY ARE GENERATED.  (dun-dun-dun!)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 12:01:42 AM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4285 on: June 13, 2019, 02:31:03 AM »
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It's not explained exactly.

Morpheus says "human beings are no longer born, we are grown" but it's not clear if he's talking about humans literally being incubated then hooked into the matrix as babies or figuratively (humans are treated like livestock or crops)

The exact details are pretty nebulous and come to think of it, it does seem kinda illogical that two bluepills in a relationship in the virtual world would have a kid who is their biological kid even though they could be hundreds of miles away IRL.  (Seems like a lot of effort for something I seriously doubt the machines care all that much about)

But my theory is that human offspring are mostly neither born nor grown...

THEY ARE GENERATED.  (dun-dun-dun!)

Same model as Brave New World.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4286 on: June 13, 2019, 04:10:07 AM »
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Eh, depends on the genre and the quality of the director. There are plenty of wonderfully consistent movies.
"demands" rather than "expects".
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4287 on: June 13, 2019, 12:29:40 PM »
Was that two-layered Matrix thing ever actually confirmed, or is that a fan theory? Some things do make sense with the two-tiered system, but I can't recall it ever being stated that it was true. Why go through the trouble of killing the resistance if they were all still trapped anyway?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Hydra009

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4288 on: June 13, 2019, 12:42:15 PM »
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Was that two-layered Matrix thing ever actually confirmed, or is that a fan theory?
Just a fan theory.

Quote
Why go through the trouble of killing the resistance if they were all still trapped anyway?
Do we actually know for a fact that they're dead?  Maybe they just wake up somewhere else and believe whatever they want to believe.

I mean, wouldn't it be pretty strange to allow agents and rebels to shoot at each other in the matrix if valuable bystanders die by the score?  Doesn't that strike you as wasteful and illogical?

Offline Munch

Re: Rate the latest movie you've seen.
« Reply #4289 on: June 13, 2019, 02:56:20 PM »
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sequel to the shining. Dunno what to think right now, I'll wait and see.

 

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