Rate the latest movie you've seen.

[SGOS]

You should check out "The Gathering Storm" and "Into the Storm", both available at Amazon. I got them for my birthday this year.

I have those plus a third, Countdown to D Day.  I guess I got all three after watching Darkest Hour.

[Sal1981]

Men in Black - 7/10

[aitm]

Remember that at least one of them is a Time Lord.

I am not a comics "fan" and no slight is intended....but if "one" is a "time lord" does that not, in reality render the rest pretty much "at the whim" of the "time lord"? Can't a time lord just go back and whack the fucker what fucked the fuckee and therefore no fucking whoever?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I am not a comics "fan" and no slight is intended....but if "one" is a "time lord" does that not, in reality render the rest pretty much "at the whim" of the "time lord"? Can't a time lord just go back and whack the fucker what fucked the fuckee and therefore no fucking whoever?

Ah, you've seen Part 2?

[SGOS]

I am not a comics "fan" and no slight is intended....but if "one" is a "time lord" does that not, in reality render the rest pretty much "at the whim" of the "time lord"? Can't a time lord just go back and whack the fucker what fucked the fuckee and therefore no fucking whoever?

Things up for discussion:

The Time Lord is no longer in possession of the time stone, so it would seem it's of no help.

Strange implies to Stark that he had to let Thanos take it, because after looking at the future, it was the only way.  What the Hell does that mean?

Marvel seems to point out the importance of the time stone in bringing the Avengers back, and at the same time, it destroys its value by taking it out of the Time Lord's hands.

Will Thanos, experiment with it and accidentally create a paradox that alters his own future?

Jesus, I've got to stop thinking about how Marvel fixes this.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Time Lord was in possession of the Time Stone and therefore potentially always will be in possession of the Time Stone.

This brought to by the Department of Loopholes.

[Hydra009]

The Time Lord is no longer in possession of the time stone, so it would seem it's of no help.

It's helpful (he uses it to see into future possibilities) but it seems the problem is that the Time Stone may actually too powerful to be very practical.

Mordo warns Strange against using the stone because it can create looped time, paradoxes, etc - "the bill comes due".

Strange could've used it to stop Thanos, but that would likely shatter the universe as we know it.  If you notice, even Thanos used the time stone extremely sparingly, going back only a couple seconds and only when there was no other way.  And Thanos is far less cautious with their use than Strange.

Using the time stone in battle is like using nuclear bombs in rugby.  It's insane and reckless.

Strange implies to Stark that he had to let Thanos take it, because after looking at the future, it was the only way.  What the Hell does that mean?

Exactly what it says.  Unless and until Thanos get what he wants, he'll kill anyone who stands in his way.  He'll eventually get it anyway, just with a much larger body count the longer you resist.

If you give him what he wants, he'll mess up the universe, but he'll become overconfident, giving you an opening to stop him and undo *most* of his destructive acts.

Will Thanos, experiment with it and accidentally create a paradox that alters his own future?

No.  Even the Mad Titan's not that crazy.  He uses it to debilitate opponents by rapidly aging them - turning them elderly or infantile.  He sometimes also ages the surroundings, like aging a bridge until it collapses or aging vegetation so that it engulfs someone.  This is the bare minimum that the Time Stone is capable of.

[SGOS]

It's helpful (he uses it to see into future possibilities) but it seems the problem is that the Time Stone may actually too powerful to be very practical.

Mordo warns Strange against using the stone because it can create looped time, paradoxes, etc - "the bill comes due".

I remember both Mordo and Wong warning him about breaking time and looping time.  I don't read the comics so I might be missing something, but my interpretation was that Dr. Strange was unusually gifted.  He became the next Sorcerer Supreme.  He used the time stone and spells to defeat Dormamu.  His knowledge and abilities eventually surpassed the all the others who weren't advanced enough to control the magic, but Strange had the intellect to master them.  Granted he may have taken risks, he always seemed capable of eventual mastery.

As far as Mordo's, "The bill comes due," I just took that as Mordo not having what it takes, and not realizing how far ahead of him Dr. Strange was.

Strange could've used it to stop Thanos, but that would likely shatter the universe as we know it.  If you notice, even Thanos used the time stone extremely sparingly, going back only a couple seconds and only when there was no other way.  And Thanos is far less cautious with their use than Strange.

But Dr. Strange is my hero.  No really, I'm enthralled with that character.  He makes Tony Stark look like a putz.  I think Dr. Strange has things under control, even as we speak.  I know he can do it.  I just know it!

Using the time stone in battle is like using nuclear bombs in rugby.

Not for Dr. Strange.  He's my hero...  I think.

[Hydra009]

I remember both Mordo and Wong warning him about breaking time and looping time.  I don't read the comics so I might be missing something, but my interpretation was that Dr. Strange was unusually gifted.  He became the next Sorcerer Supreme.  He used the time stone and spells to defeat Dormamu.

Not so much defeat as "frustrate until he caves and goes away".  And you'd better believe that Dormamu noticed the Time Stone's change of ownership.  Deal's off.

His knowledge and abilities eventually surpassed the all the others who weren't advanced enough to control the magic, but Strange had the intellect to master them.  Granted he may have taken risks, he always seemed capable of eventual mastery.

You don't really "control" magic, exactly.  That was why Strange couldn't get basic magic working correctly at first.

As far as Mordo's, "The bill comes due," I just took that as Mordo not having what it takes, and not realizing how far ahead of him Dr. Strange was.

Nope.  He might also be a tad jealous and daunted by the circumstances, but he's right to be cautious and not seek to reach beyond his grasp.

A sorcerer drawing power from the dark dimension is like a paladin practicing necromancy.  It's so hypocritical and perverse.  And using the Time Stone offensively is pure hubris.

And this from a guy who spars using The Staff of the Living Tribunal (basically, God's gavel).  That says a lot.

But Dr. Strange is my hero.  No really, I'm enthralled with that character.  He makes Tony Stark look like a putz.  I think Dr. Strange has things under control, even as we speak.  I know he can do it.  I just know it!

Eh...Tony is a self-made hero.  He literally had a gun to his head and rather than use his knowledge do evil, he pulled off one hell of a prisoner escape.

Strange was a douche who crashed his car, got real sad that his hands don't work, then stumbled on Hogwarts after going through a lot of frauds first.  He studied really hard and went through a couple school of hard knocks-style trials, but he basically stumbled across his sentient cape.  And how'd he get the Time Gem?  He saw it on a pedestal, wanted to use it, grabbed it, and used it!  It's just there for the taking, apparently.  Granted he went through some stuff, but a lot of his power was basically just gifted to him.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The fact that he was able to manipulate the Eye of Agamoto on the first try indicates a level of connection that very few would have. It was there "on display" because the vast majority of people couldn't get a peep out of it.

[SGOS]

Strange was a douche who crashed his car, got real sad that his hands don't work, then stumbled on Hogwarts after going through a lot of frauds first.  He studied really hard and went through a couple school of hard knocks-style trials, but he basically stumbled across his sentient cape.  And how'd he get the Time Gem?  He saw it on a pedestal, wanted to use it, grabbed it, and used it!  It's just there for the taking, apparently.  Granted he went through some stuff, but a lot of his power was basically just gifted to him.

I've heard a couple of people say they didn't like Dr. Strange, because he was an arrogant walking ego, and that's true.  He was.  But the origin stories of Superheroes like to play on the theme of growth.  Wimpy high school kid becomes Spiderman.  Captain America couldn't lift a bowling ball at one time.  Antman was a ex-con.  The stories play upon becoming something, often from hardly anything.  Dr. Strange, like many of the others, outgrew his old self, and in Infinity Wars he doesn't come across as cocksure as he once was, but more like a team player, with his focus on the greater good.

Yeah, he grabbed forbidden things, but he wasn't trying to misbehave.  He was obsessed with learning and determined to learn about things.  He broke some rules, but eventually gained the Ancient One's approval for doing so.   

He didn't really stumble onto the cloak of levitation.  Long before, he asked Mordo, "How do you choose a relic?"  Mordo replied, "You don't.  The relic chooses you... When you are ready."  Presumably all of his relic gagets were earned "because he became ready" and stopped fighting the river's current.  The exception being the time stone, which he just took, and for reason's I don't understand, everyone looked the other way, almost like they knew it had been destined for him.

[Hydra009]

Good points.

And come to think if it, most superheroes in the MCU aren't self-made like Iron Man is.  Most of them were either born with powers (all the X-Men), got it through accident/luck (Spider-Man, the Hulk), or were gifted with it (Black Panther, Ant Man, Captain America)

And Doctor Strange does go through a character arc where he learns to be less selfish.  Personally, I think Tony is the better character because he starts out as a jerkface like Strange, but Tony is charismatic and likable despite his jerkiness, unlike Strange.  And Tony had to go through a humble pie buffet to change his course in life (and atone for his company's misdeeds) while Strange just had to knock on the right door, study some books (and steal some of them), and rein in his jerkface nature just a little bit to get off-the-charts power.  It kinda struck me as somewhat unearned.  But hey, he did die over and over again to save the world, and that's pretty impressive.  Kinda Jesus-like.  Though it seems like Dormamu was about a minute away from destroying the whole world, including him, so he kinda had no choice but to sacrifice himself to save himself.  Hmmm...

[SGOS]

No question that Tony Stark has been a charismatic character with a presence in the Marvel Universe that never seems to stale.  I saw the first Iron Man in Chicago, because my Brother-in-law insisted.  I didn't know anything about it, or that they had even made such a movie.  But I remember half way through thinking, "This certainly sets a new bar for the Superhero genre," and it did.  The origin story, where he is forced to figure out how to save his ass with that clunky suit of armor, had all the right components, and from there he goes on from the rusty prototype to build the ultra improved long distance almost indestructible unit.

There's an obvious similarity between all the Marvel heroes and their back stories, but each one is tweaked to create a new character and personality, and Marvel always seems to include the right components.  Dr. Strange's back story is weaker than Stark's, and it drags out a bit.  It's just watching him in a long period of angst, while Stark is actively engaged in problem solving right from the start.  But when Strange learns magic, even though he is intellectually unwilling to accept it, I become fascinated.  There is nothing high tech in it, just ancient spells and the waving of hands.  It's not what I would expect to be so unexplainably enchanted with, but I am.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I loved the original Ironman suit. The crotch was about one foot, 30cm, wide. Tony's pelvis would have been dislocated in an interesting manner.

Now if Strange could get me one of those Ever-filled beer steins...

[Munch]

Speaking of the MCU, there is a problem I've had with it in regards to what they did with a certain character.

I've been a marvel comics fan for years, since the late 80s and 90s, when I became an x-men fan, which I still am today. It wasn't until the early 2000s I got into other marvel titles like the avengers, and my favorite avenger, who I brought loads of comics for, was Thor.

I liked the other avengers, including cap, marvels hercules, hawkeye, hulk (sometimes), but my favorite avenger was Thor. To me the concept of him being an actual god with the kind of power he wielded it, while living among mortals, was such a great concept. I just loved the way he spoke and interacted with other characters, and how he was just such a powerhouse when fighting.



So of course when they announced a Thor movie coming, I was excited. and seeing the promos of it, I was sold, Chris Hemsworth was perfect looking for the role, and I could see they worked on delivering the aesthetic of Thor, the godly world he came from.



So the movie came out, and it had mixed reactions to it, but to me, I was just happy to see Thor having his own movie, even if there were some flaws, I forgave it for the fact it gave us a cinematic version of Thor, and a character arch for him.

However this and more so the sequal Thor the dark world wasn't given any real praise, looked over as mediocre by people, but it did setup having Thor in the Avengers movie, which nailed him really well. Its true his dialogue wasn't as grandiose as in the comics, but I forgave that fact for everything else.



But when Thor Ragnarok came around, and seeing that, seeing the changes made to Thor, this really just broke for me my fav character in the MCU. And I realized how this was because of more then just this movie.

The Thor Ragnarok, they essentially broke Thor down, they changed him, instead of making the idea of the fall of asgard into a serious thing, it played the movie light hearted and goofy, like they did with the oh so popular guardians of the galaxy. I just took it because of how successful guardians was, and how unpopular the first two thor movies were, they decided to completely revamp Thor for the marvel cinematic universe.

And that is my major problem with this. Seeing Thor in Ragnarok and Avengers infinity war, it just doesn't seem like the same character. Its true in the first and second Thor movies he wasn't exactly like he was in the comics, but the tone of Hemsworth voice and the way he spoke, who he acted, it felt like he was TRYING to convey the Thor from the comics.
Come Ragnarok and infinity war, he's just seemed to abandon that, to become his easy to crowd please character that fits more in the guardians of the galaxy movies then he does in anything related to the Thor storyline.

And I think that comes back to the Thor movies, and how in the first two, they didn't do a good enough job in conveying Thor as the character he was lived in the comics. In the comics, Thor is seen as this powerhouse, this larger then life character, who when he arrived in battle, would often be a win button for the avengers because of his power, and this gave him a presence.

A great example of what I'm talking about is here:
(bit of a read but worth it)

[spoiler]











[/spoiler]

To summarize, in the Civil war comic, in which the superheroes of marvel comics were split, one against the superhero registration act that would force heroes to conform to the government, and those against it. It had ironman on the pro side of the registration fact, Captain America against it, leading to a civil war between both sides.
In that series, Thor was dead at the time, but came back to life later. During the event, Tony Stack decided to clone Thor, with all the powers he held, but make the clone completely subservient to Tonys side. This lead to the Thor clone killing one of the heroes on the opposing side, Goliath.

When Thor came back to life, as seen here, he was royally pissed at Tony.

This to me is Thor, he's this commanding powerhouse who has a strong sense of honor, and having him interacting with morals despite that position he's in is whats made him a beloved character for years.

But in the MCU, its like they tried to convey that in the first two movies, but didn't really hit the nail for what made Thor this character. This I blame on the directors.
So instead of trying to work this out, they just went 'fuck it, lets make his story silly and goofy, make him a space pirate and goth him out and shave his head and break him down so he's as grounded as everyone else'. But that isn't Thor to me. And its why I can't really enjoy Thor Ragnarok and him in Infinity War, because they just Gave up trying to convey this Thor.