Rate the latest movie you've seen.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

WW84 today!

[the_antithesis]

White Christmas?  What, no lightsabers no aliens?  There are a lot of good old movies and TV shows.

I may pop this into the DVD player...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2BfsbZOuTI

[SGOS]

WW84 today!

I just watched it.  It showed up on HBO streaming.  I don't stream, but I had to see it, so I signed up for HBO.  It cost me $15 for a month, which is basically the cost of a movie ticket and an 80 mile round trip to the theater (for me).  So even if I'm not satisfied with HBO, I can cancel out at the end of January, and I break even.  DC may be catching up to Marvel, with Wonder Woman and Joker back to back.  The ending is meant to be uplifting and a message of hope, but it's laid on so thick that it overshoots the mark and turns out to be an eye rolling face palm.  I didn't vomit though.  Over all, it's great fun and a wonderful way to spend Christmas Day at home.  I liked it better than the first Wonder Woman.

[Hydra009]

DC may be catching up to Marvel, with Wonder Woman and Joker back to back.

Ehhh...

Don't get me wrong, I really liked The Joker, but that's just a one-off movie.  If DC were able to pump out 2 or 3 megahits per year for a decade - which I very much doubt they could pull off for even a year - then they'd on the same level as Marvel.

Marvel has an easier time of it because they have a much more varied lineup.  In contrast, DC has had great difficulty expanding beyond Batman, Superman, and the occasional Wonder Woman.

And to be brutally honest, DC have neither the skill nor the raw clay for a decade-long successful run comparable to Marvel.  Few do.  Imho, out of all the big franchises, only Star Wars currently has that sort of potential.

[the_antithesis]

Marvel has an easier time of it because they have a much more varied lineup.  In contrast, DC has had great difficulty expanding beyond Batman, Superman, and the occasional Wonder Woman.

I don't think that's the reason. It has more to do with the writing, which has been clearly on Marvel's side. The DC movies were saddled with this Snyderverse bullshit, but now that his randian ass is out, they can try to recover a little. They do still cater to a twelve-year-old's idea of being adult in places. "Fuck Batman," indeed.

Some videos on the subject I've recently watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdxk7dB9yeU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dfI_2dscGE

[Hydra009]

They do still cater to a twelve-year-old's idea of being adult in places. "Fuck Batman," indeed.

I don't know what you're talking about.  These people are sitting on cinematic gold.  It's like Hemmingway wrote it himself.  They put this to film and Marvel's going to have sell Hulk Juice at the drugstore just to make ends meet.

[Hydra009]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dfI_2dscGE

I'm about halfway through this video.

Superhero movies don't necessarily need to be rated-R, you of course can have great storytelling and gripping action without shish kabobing the mooks.  Deadpool stands out as one of the rare examples of a superhero(ish) film that should aim for an R-rating because his antics naturally lend themselves to a great deal of swearing and violence.  Imho, Logan was a bit too dark and brutal for my tastes, but my take is clearly in the minority.  That movie made bank and got rave reviews.  And Hollywood goes were the money is.  That said, there will always be a place for superhero movies below R-ratings.  Into The Spider-Verse was rated G and that movie made bank and got rave reviews.

Similarly, "dark and gritty" is absolutely not what movie studios should shoot for unless it makes sense for the character.  Joker?  Yes.  Spider-Man?  No.  Punisher?  Yes.  Fantastic Four?  No.  The Boys?  Yes.

A big part of this whole R-rating craze might be the relegation of superhero stories as "children's entertainment" as if no one over the age 12 could possibly enjoy a comic book.  Not to mention the sanitization and arguable censorship of comics under the Comics Code Authority, which ensured that no one over the age of 12 would.  It makes sense for superhero comics/tv/movies to want to try to shoot for more adult themes while at the same time still being approachable by kids - like the Batman Animated Series.

And finally, I feel like I should touch upon the seemingly damning aesop embedded in superheroing:  "solving problems with violence".

1) Superhero films are a subgenre of action films and action films as a genre always have violence, usually justified as protective/defense.
2) Lots and lots of movies from scifi to fantasy to dramas to military films feature some form of justified violence, whether it's hunting down Nazis, killing gangsters, etc.

"Okay, so a lot of other films do it too, but that's still a bad message send, right?"

Kinda.  I wish more superhero films relied more on guile heroism (the hero uses his/her wits to win, rather than brute force).  It really breaks up the monotony of straight action all the time.  There was an Iron Man What If? comic that had War Machine talk the villain down from the verge of committing murder and even manages to rehabilitate him somewhat.  I love it when diplomacy carries the day because it shows that there are other options than using force, even if they're not obvious or easy.

So yeah, it's good to point out that violence isn't the only solution.  But yanno, it is a solution.  That seems to be the general consensus society has made, though there are some who argue that all violence is abhorrent.  Of course, there are also some who say much the same about sex, so it's tough to say who is truly on the right side of history here.

[SGOS]

Ehhh...

Don't get me wrong, I really liked The Joker, but that's just a one-off movie.  If DC were able to pump out 2 or 3 megahits per year for a decade - which I very much doubt they could pull off for even a year - then they'd on the same level as Marvel.

Marvel has an easier time of it because they have a much more varied lineup.  In contrast, DC has had great difficulty expanding beyond Batman, Superman, and the occasional Wonder Woman.

And to be brutally honest, DC have neither the skill nor the raw clay for a decade-long successful run comparable to Marvel.  Few do.  Imho, out of all the big franchises, only Star Wars currently has that sort of potential.

It's true that two good movies back to make don't make a run.  I always compare DC to Marvel, because Marvel always puts out better stuff, and they're both the same genre.  I go to DC movies with my guard up, because they do put out some stinkers at times.  I root for DC to do better, not to start a competition, but simply because I want to watch better movies, and I don't expect DC to match, let alone out do, Marvel, but any improvement would help.  I know they can do this, but sometimes it almost feels like they hold themselves back when I know they can do great films.  V for Vendetta, some of the X-Men films, Batman Begins, Joker, and Wonder Woman, Man of Steel are very good, and improved on their stuff from 20-30 years ago. 

I agree with Antithesis about the writing.  I've often thought the characters have great potential, even if limited in number, but DC seems to often struggle with the story telling.  I never identified with a specific writer, however.  But sometimes I would wonder, "What were the writers thinking?"  They do decent story telling most of the time, but too often they suddenly lapse into something that doesn't fit, or like they run out of creativity, and do something lame, because they need filler to make the film longer,  or to be funny they sometimes just get stupid.  Part of that is directing, I think.  But Joker and Wonder Woman give me hope that they can pull out of their part time funk.  And I hope that this turns out to be an upward trend.  I'll still support them.  I won't miss one of their films, because sometimes they nail it.

[Cassia]

I am stupid when it comes to superhero movies. I sort of resist them and then when I see them I get all into it, LOL. I think it is because the heroes are too "christ-like" perhaps. Just like him they have super-powers, great abs, cult followers and obvious human character flaws to seemingly manipulate us to relate to them. Characters are overboard ideologs. They are often "killed-off" in symbolic ways to ride again, somehow.

Of course practically all fiction has these same setups, however they seem to be amplified with superheroes. I do prefer when they are less graphically violent.  Am I seeing this genre in an unfair light?

[SGOS]

For me, the genre excites my basic childhood fantasies of being indestructible, saving people, or saving the universe.  It's not real.  It's not grown up, and it's hardly dignified.  Call it a confession on my part.  I don't care what people call it.  It just makes me feel good. 

I have a good friend who takes great pride in avoiding the genre, and claims to not know anything about it.  He's very intellectual, but still has a over the top sense of humor.  But some things are just beneath his dignity.  Surprisingly, he thought Joker was an excellent film, even though he has very little context to put the Joker in. 

I don't mind seeing a film that teaches a lesson, or signals a virtue, or makes intellectual observations of the human condition, but what I really like is the ability to put reality aside and bask in unbridled fantasy for a couple of hours.  Reality is always there when I'm done, and there is no worry about losing touch with it.  It's there waiting for me, and I like that too.

[Baruch]

R-rated superheroes are there for former children who are now adults, who need grittier fare.

Star Cops is intelligent, not much fisticuffs, reasonable sci fi.  Try it, if you like cop shows.  Of course not every show can be Monk or Colombo.  It is sequential, so start at the beginning, and don't see the outtake reel until you are done.

[the_antithesis]

But sometimes I would wonder, "What were the writers thinking?"  They do decent story telling most of the time, but too often they suddenly lapse into something that doesn't fit, or like they run out of creativity, and do something lame, because they need filler to make the film longer,  or to be funny they sometimes just get stupid.

"Save Martha."

Probably the most clunkily executed plot point in the history of storytelling. Not just film, stories in general. I think Axe Cop follows a better logical progression.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHGfSBr2FrY

  Am I seeing this genre in an unfair light?

Possibly. The thing about super heroes is that it's just action/adventure but the hero has a silly name and a sillier outfit. A lot of the stuff you'd mentioned are modern stuff put into the genre in the last, geez, thirty, forty years? Originally it was much simpler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7GtCsXn1yE

Batman didn't have an origin until, like, his third appearance and it wasn't constantly on his mind until the mid-80's. But now he's constantly dealing with that trauma and you know if you see a piece of media that make a breakthrough for him that it will be ignored by the wider canon and media because failing to come to terms with his parents' murder is a defining character trait. Which, you could say was always true for the character, but the golden-through-bronze age character didn't harp on it as much as the modern version and the cinematic version has been even worse. Before Batman Begins rebooted everything, we had four Batman movies in a kind of series and three of them depicted some element of the origin story. God. Damn. It.

I hate origin stories so much. It's like the Scooby Doo movie where the gang splits up and goes their separate ways because they have a big falling out, but THAT IS NOT HOW SCOOBY FUCKING DOO WORKS. Neither do super heroes work when you try to make them realistic, but they are inherently unrealistic and silly. The whole genre is made of a great big gimme and they simply refuse to just acknowledge that and tell me a fun super hero story.

To put it another way, I do not have any interest in seeing a remake of Taxi Driver mashed up with King of Comedy as presented by the guy who made the Hangover movies. I want there to be these billboards around Gotham City with statues of giant household object, like telephones or bowls of soup or whatever and the Joker has a crime spree where he steals them because he's crazy. I don't want deep character drama in my super hero flick in much the same way you don't go to see Little Women for the car chases and explosions. It's the wrong genre for that shit and if you think adding that would improve it, you're ignoring what makes the genre worth having around in the first place.

[SGOS]

I understand they want to give them human qualities to make them relatable, but Batman spends more time brooding in the throes of existential angst than I do.  I don't want my heroes to be more conflicted than I am.  I want to look up to them, not feel sorry for them. V for Vendetta avoided that.  He put Evie through the ringer, but he was constantly focused on his mission.  Maybe that's why I liked that movie so much.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Poor billionaire misses Mommy and Daddy.

[Baruch]

Poor billionaire misses Mommy and Daddy.

Having a long term relationship with a loving mother and father is great.  Every human tragedy is an opportunity to grow your character.  In Batman's case, he became a psycho crime fighter.  Better reaction than most people posting here ;-)  The cuck-itude of the present generation is why we have "victim politics".  Their reaction to adversity is to become baby Hitler.