Improving communication with theists

[Brian37]

I very much Like this statement, Brian.  Like this Very much !!!  
Points 3 8-)

Thank you Bri. I really do get tired of humans taking offense to being offended. If those who get offended to the point of taking up arms merely for getting offended, want to prove to me that they are civil, then the worst they should respond to is a "fuck you" or "why do you say that" or simply ignore me.

I get offended myself. I hate it when theists equate atheists to Hitler and Stalin. I get offended when they claim I am immoral or am incapable of being good. But so the fuck what.  To assume that they owe me taboo status because I don't like what they say is bullshit.

Because the difference is that the real offense isn't that they claim it, the real offense is that they have no evidence for it. If I shut down everyone who said stupid hateful things about me, and demanded their silence, there never would be any dialogue at all.

Now if someone still insists on being an asshole after I explain to them why they are wrong, even then I don't stop them. I simply put them on display like the zoo animal they act like.

The other thing with PC people, be they atheist or theist, that bugs me, is that their good intent is a form of taboo. If one wants to know what PC looks like, Iran is PC, you are not allowed to offend their religion. If one wants to know what PC looks like China's communist party wont allow you to offend the state.

I can understand the good intent of people, but taboos are not the tactic we should use.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I personally don't care what someone else thinks, so long as it doesn't affect my son or myself.

Like Brian says; what they think does affect you. Laws are made based on what people think. And laws heavily affect you and your children. And everyone else around you.

Well, I vote my way and they vote theirs.  That's the beauty of the franchise, don't you think?

What I'm talking about when I wrote the above is that if they keep their beliefs to themselves, then I don't care.  I didn't think I had to explain that I vote my conscience and take note of theists doing the same, but I suppose I was wrong, so here it is.

Unless I'm mistaken, Texas is still one of the states where being religious is required for being in office. I don't know about you, but I'd consider that something that seriously affects me.

You're mistaken.  That is not legal in any state in the Union per Torcaso v Williams.

The limitation to federal officeholders was mooted by the Supreme Court in the 1961 case, Torcaso v. Watkins. Relying upon the First Amendment religion clauses, the Court struck down religious tests for any public office in the United States. Not even a simple profession of belief in God—as was required of Roy Torcaso, an aspiring notary public—may now be required. Torcaso thus totally eclipses the Religious Test Clause of Article VI. The scope of an individual's immunity from disqualification from office on religious bases now depends upon the meaning of the Establishment and Free Exercise of Religion Clauses, not upon Article VI. Because the First Amendment's breadth is as wide as all government activity, questions about the precise meaning of "office of public trust" are also moot. Whether the Religious Test Clause by itself extends to Members of Congress or all the way down to postal workers no longer matters—save perhaps to historians.

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#! ... gious-test

I can understand the good intent of people, but taboos are not the tactic we should use.

Hear, hear!

[Plu]

You're mistaken. That is not legal in any state in the Union per Torcaso v Williams.

Good to hear I suppose :)

[WitchSabrina]

I very much Like this statement, Brian.  Like this Very much !!!  
Points 3 8-)

Thank you Bri. I really do get tired of humans taking offense to being offended. If those who get offended to the point of taking up arms merely for getting offended, want to prove to me that they are civil, then the worst they should respond to is a "fuck you" or "why do you say that" or simply ignore me.

I get offended myself. I hate it when theists equate atheists to Hitler and Stalin. I get offended when they claim I am immoral or am incapable of being good. But so the fuck what.  To assume that they owe me taboo status because I don't like what they say is bullshit.

Because the difference is that the real offense isn't that they claim it, the real offense is that they have no evidence for it. If I shut down everyone who said stupid hateful things about me, and demanded their silence, there never would be any dialogue at all.

Now if someone still insists on being an asshole after I explain to them why they are wrong, even then I don't stop them. I simply put them on display like the zoo animal they act like.

The other thing with PC people, be they atheist or theist, that bugs me, is that their good intent is a form of taboo. If one wants to know what PC looks like, Iran is PC, you are not allowed to offend their religion. If one wants to know what PC looks like China's communist party wont allow you to offend the state.

I can understand the good intent of people, but taboos are not the tactic we should use.

Truly when you peel back all the bullshit........people who get all butthurt and wounded all the time are SO focused on what works for them they really shouldn't try to present themselves as people who think of others.  Clearly they don't or can't.  It's always about THEM........poor babies.  Grow the fuck up.  Right? Jesus.  We've reached an epidemic level of "I'm butthurt and MY opinion matters !!!"   The whine-population is at an all time high.
Back when we were growing up our parents and grandparents taught us that WE were NOT the center of the fucking universe and our opinions, needs, wants, etc were just that........ ours.   Our wants and needs, demands, etc did NOT belong to the rest of the planet to fucking satisfy.
Imagine that........raising kids to see themselves PART of something instead of the center of it.
Imagine that.
Little butt-hurters need their own island where they can get down to just beating the shit out of each other to see who's needs win at the end of the day
LMAO

I mean
FCUK !!!

[Davka]

It seems to me that people are talking past each-other in this thread. The OP isn't saying atheists shouldn't be rude to theists, it's saying that IF an atheist wishes to engage in constructive debate with a theist, being rude probably isn't the best way to go about that. For that matter, any individual who wishes to engage in constructive debate with any other individual should avoid rudeness, since it's a surefire way to put an end to any useful dialogue.

If you don't care what someone else thinks, or want them to know that their behavior is offensive and unacceptable, that's a whole different ballgame.

Humans have an unfortunate tendency to create us/them dichotomies. And whatever side we are on is the right side, while "they" are on the fucktard asshole side. Whenever this kind of dichotomy is invoked, whether in politics, religion, sports, or whatever, all possibility of constructive conversation goes out the window.

For example, I know full well that the Republican Party is the party of greedy power-hungry motherfuckers who don't give a rat's ass what happens to anyone else as long as they get theirs. But if I want to try to reach a policy compromise with a Republican, I need to play nice. Otherwise, we end up with the kind of clown show we have in Washington today.

Does that mean you always have to play nice? Fuck, no! It's just a common sense truism about conversation v. heated rhetoric. Play however you want.

[GurrenLagann]

It seems to me that people are talking past each-other in this thread. The OP isn't saying atheists shouldn't be rude to theists, it's saying that IF an atheist wishes to engage in constructive debate with a theist, being rude probably isn't the best way to go about that. For that matter, any individual who wishes to engage in constructive debate with any other individual should avoid rudeness, since it's a surefire way to put an end to any useful dialogue.

If you don't care what someone else thinks, or want them to know that their behavior is offensive and unacceptable, that's a whole different ballgame.

Humans have an unfortunate tendency to create us/them dichotomies. And whatever side we are on is the right side, while "they" are on the fucktard asshole side. Whenever this kind of dichotomy is invoked, whether in politics, religion, sports, or whatever, all possibility of constructive conversation goes out the window.

For example, I know full well that the Republican Party is the party of greedy power-hungry motherfuckers who don't give a rat's ass what happens to anyone else as long as they get theirs. But if I want to try to reach a policy compromise with a Republican, I need to play nice. Otherwise, we end up with the kind of clown show we have in Washington today.

Does that mean you always have to play nice? Fuck, no! It's just a common sense truism about conversation v. heated rhetoric. Play however you want.

Agreed, and this was the point I was trying to make as well. As I said, if you aren't interested in actually having a constructive conversation (the kind that is actually going to have a good chance of changing minds), then being belligerent is about the worst thing you can do. Otherwise, having the conversation in the first place is disingenuous.

[Brian37]

I very much Like this statement, Brian.  Like this Very much !!!  
Points 3 8-)

Thank you Bri. I really do get tired of humans taking offense to being offended. If those who get offended to the point of taking up arms merely for getting offended, want to prove to me that they are civil, then the worst they should respond to is a "fuck you" or "why do you say that" or simply ignore me.

I get offended myself. I hate it when theists equate atheists to Hitler and Stalin. I get offended when they claim I am immoral or am incapable of being good. But so the fuck what.  To assume that they owe me taboo status because I don't like what they say is bullshit.

Because the difference is that the real offense isn't that they claim it, the real offense is that they have no evidence for it. If I shut down everyone who said stupid hateful things about me, and demanded their silence, there never would be any dialogue at all.

Now if someone still insists on being an asshole after I explain to them why they are wrong, even then I don't stop them. I simply put them on display like the zoo animal they act like.

The other thing with PC people, be they atheist or theist, that bugs me, is that their good intent is a form of taboo. If one wants to know what PC looks like, Iran is PC, you are not allowed to offend their religion. If one wants to know what PC looks like China's communist party wont allow you to offend the state.

I can understand the good intent of people, but taboos are not the tactic we should use.

Truly when you peel back all the bullshit........people who get all butthurt and wounded all the time are SO focused on what works for them they really shouldn't try to present themselves as people who think of others.  Clearly they don't or can't.  It's always about THEM........poor babies.  Grow the fuck up.  Right? Jesus.  We've reached an epidemic level of "I'm butthurt and MY opinion matters !!!"   The whine-population is at an all time high.
Back when we were growing up our parents and grandparents taught us that WE were NOT the center of the fucking universe and our opinions, needs, wants, etc were just that........ ours.   Our wants and needs, demands, etc did NOT belong to the rest of the planet to fucking satisfy.
Imagine that........raising kids to see themselves PART of something instead of the center of it.
Imagine that.
Little butt-hurters need their own island where they can get down to just beating the shit out of each other to see who's needs win at the end of the day
LMAO

I mean
FCUK !!!

Don't get me wrong, having been bullied as a kid, I do get it, and when people fuck with ABBA today with me, I do get a lip twitch. But I would have been more well adjusted if I had worried less about trying to get others not to offend me, and spent more time on being myself.

There are real victims, in every label, be they Christian, Muslim, Jew or atheist. And even outside the issue of religion our species regardless of boarders have competition constantly. We ultimately are all trying to find a sense of survival.

But to think in all this, that because any human in our evolution, deserves to milk victim status forever, is absurd. No one likes to be abused. But when we forget we are the same species, we can and often do the same thing to others in the future that we claim we would never do ourselves.

Things will get better long term if we stop playing victim. Our species is capable of understanding pain. But we cannot use that as an excuse to silence others because everyone feels pain.

[Mister Agenda]

I very much Like this statement, Brian.  Like this Very much !!!  
Points 3 8-)

Thank you Bri. I really do get tired of humans taking offense to being offended. If those who get offended to the point of taking up arms merely for getting offended, want to prove to me that they are civil, then the worst they should respond to is a "fuck you" or "why do you say that" or simply ignore me.

I get offended myself. I hate it when theists equate atheists to Hitler and Stalin. I get offended when they claim I am immoral or am incapable of being good. But so the fuck what.  To assume that they owe me taboo status because I don't like what they say is bullshit.

Because the difference is that the real offense isn't that they claim it, the real offense is that they have no evidence for it. If I shut down everyone who said stupid hateful things about me, and demanded their silence, there never would be any dialogue at all.

Now if someone still insists on being an asshole after I explain to them why they are wrong, even then I don't stop them. I simply put them on display like the zoo animal they act like.

The other thing with PC people, be they atheist or theist, that bugs me, is that their good intent is a form of taboo. If one wants to know what PC looks like, Iran is PC, you are not allowed to offend their religion. If one wants to know what PC looks like China's communist party wont allow you to offend the state.

I can understand the good intent of people, but taboos are not the tactic we should use.

Truly when you peel back all the bullshit........people who get all butthurt and wounded all the time are SO focused on what works for them they really shouldn't try to present themselves as people who think of others.  Clearly they don't or can't.  It's always about THEM........poor babies.  Grow the fuck up.  Right? Jesus.  We've reached an epidemic level of "I'm butthurt and MY opinion matters !!!"   The whine-population is at an all time high.
Back when we were growing up our parents and grandparents taught us that WE were NOT the center of the fucking universe and our opinions, needs, wants, etc were just that........ ours.   Our wants and needs, demands, etc did NOT belong to the rest of the planet to fucking satisfy.
Imagine that........raising kids to see themselves PART of something instead of the center of it.
Imagine that.
Little butt-hurters need their own island where they can get down to just beating the shit out of each other to see who's needs win at the end of the day
LMAO

I mean
FCUK !!!

You're sounding kind of butthurt today, WS. It's not like you to misspell fuck. Everything OK?

 

[widdershins]

You're sounding kind of butthurt today, WS. It's not like you to misspell fuck. Everything OK?

 

You gotta love this guy. :rollin:

[WitchSabrina]

You're sounding kind of butthurt today, WS. It's not like you to misspell fuck. Everything OK?

 

You gotta love this guy. :rollin:

double that  :rollin:  :rollin: