In 180 seconds you'll be voting for Bernie Sanders. .

Started by AllPurposeAtheist, June 13, 2015, 12:39:07 PM

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AllPurposeAtheist

I gotta say. .I'd love to see a Sanders/Warren ticket and perhaps I'm to pie in the sky, but I'd love to see the two of them turn the establishment on its head and even being a lot of rubes with them in not only the presidential election, but the congressional and the mid terms. .
Then again I'd also like my gf to become 40 years younger looking like she did 40 years ago. .
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

trdsf

Quote from: Brian37 on June 14, 2015, 11:01:10 AM
The cause of our 30 year decline has been the top and the right using blackmail and money to bully the entire congress, and democratic politicians have for far too long allowed their sense of cooperation to allow them to be pulled to the right. But as far as ideas, democrats are the party of the worker and the party of equality.
Moreso than the Republicans, certainly -- although I'm more likely to say that they're less anti-labor than the Repubs, than that they're pro-labor.  I would love for Sanders and Warren and other progressives to get out there and drag the national debate back where it belongs, in the center.  Unfortunately, Will Rogers' statement -- "I don't belong to any organized political party, I'm a Democrat" -- still holds, and getting us all pointed in the same direction is like herding hyperactive kittens.

The main structural thing in favor of the Democrat this coming election is the dictum that a candidate runs to the party's extreme for the nomination, then runs to the center for the general election.  Considering a) the candidates already declared on the Other Party's side, and b) where their extreme end currently is, Hillary can casually stand in the center and claim it months ahead of either convention and cede the left-wing vote to Sanders or move enough in his direction to dilute it.  By the fall, whoever's carrying the banner for the GOP has the unenviable task of trying to either push a toxic set of policies that attracts no one but the hardest of hard core Republicans, or of trying to encroach on territory that will have by then been well claimed by the Democrats -- and the participation of Sanders will only make the Repubs look even more extreme, and move the center even further away from where they are now.

Yeah, I know, I'm kind of mentally ceding the nomination to Hillary already -- I could be surprised (again), though.  Realistically, or at least based on current polling, she represents the best chance to keep the White House out of Republican hands, and that's my priority #1.  I'm willing to take half a loaf over no loaf at all.  But if Bernie's still in by the time the circus reaches Ohio, I will be pulling the lever for him.  I want my party to know that it belongs on the left.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Shiranu

Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 14, 2015, 01:33:52 PM
I gotta say. .I'd love to see a Sanders/Warren ticket and perhaps I'm to pie in the sky, but I'd love to see the two of them turn the establishment on its head and even being a lot of rubes with them in not only the presidential election, but the congressional and the mid terms. .
Then again I'd also like my gf to become 40 years younger looking like she did 40 years ago. .

That would definitely be a dream team to me.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

SGOS

Quote from: trdsf on June 14, 2015, 08:13:35 PM
Yeah, I know, I'm kind of mentally ceding the nomination to Hillary already -- I could be surprised (again), though.  Realistically, or at least based on current polling, she represents the best chance to keep the White House out of Republican hands,

That's where she was eight years ago until an unknown Junior Senator stepped in and captured everyone's attention.  That was an unusual situation that doesn't happen often.  I don't know if that's likely to happen again or not.  I supported Hillary back then too, but it was a lukewarm support.  Obama is a dynamic campaigner that won my trust easily.  And I thought he would be a much hoped for liberal, not just another Democrat, but I was making assumptions based mostly on not really knowing him.  In fact, what happened was that he captured my imagination, and that was all.  There was nothing else to judge him by.  My question would be why did people walk away from Hillary so quickly?  Is it something about Hillary, or was it that Obama was just that good?

Whether this makes a difference, I don't know.  While Hillary is polling well, she's not really competing with anyone at the moment.  But I question whether her support is that strong (as in people's hearts and minds)?  Does that even matter?  Maybe it's just the numbers that count.

trdsf

Quote from: SGOS on June 15, 2015, 08:00:55 AM
That's where she was eight years ago until an unknown Junior Senator stepped in and captured everyone's attention.  That was an unusual situation that doesn't happen often.  I don't know if that's likely to happen again or not.  I supported Hillary back then too, but it was a lukewarm support.  Obama is a dynamic campaigner that won my trust easily.  And I thought he would be a much hoped for liberal, not just another Democrat, but I was making assumptions based mostly on not really knowing him.  In fact, what happened was that he captured my imagination, and that was all.  There was nothing else to judge him by.  My question would be why did people walk away from Hillary so quickly?  Is it something about Hillary, or was it that Obama was just that good?

Whether this makes a difference, I don't know.  While Hillary is polling well, she's not really competing with anyone at the moment.  But I question whether her support is that strong (as in people's hearts and minds)?  Does that even matter?  Maybe it's just the numbers that count.
Well, not entirely unknown.  I remember Obama's keynote at the 2004 Democratic convention -- I forget which commentator it was (I think it was David Brinkley) who remarked something like, "I think we've just seen our first black President." and many of us, myself included, were wondering why he wasn't our candidate that year.  He was a superb campaigner, there's no question about that.  And given the extraordinary level of opposition the Other Party has thrown at him where they oppose what he says even before he says it, I think it's remarkable he's accomplished what he has.

But Obama had to win me over; I was intrigued, but I was still in the Hillary camp because she had the experience that he didn't, and if she had won the nomination, I would have voted for her without hesitation -- and will do so next year, if everything plays out the way I expect it to.

But the Sanders run is important -- I think it marks the beginning of the swing back of the political pendulum.  He's a tough, intelligent liberal who doesn't come off like a crank, like Kucinich did (and who I will never forgive for his comments about my old congresswoman Marcy Kaptur after she beat him in the primary for the new 9th District).  The national debate is too far to the right at present for him to win, but he's in a prime position to pull it back to some semblance of sanity.  Because let's be honest, in any other country at least in the Developed West, Obama would be a centrist, not on the left.  We don't have a liberal party in this country, at the national level.  We have a centrist one, and a collection of raving reactionary lunatics that make the John Birch Society look reasonable.  It's past time that the pendulum swing back again.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

AllPurposeAtheist

All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

JBCuzISaidSo

BUMP! Sanders or Bust. Those of you that think Clinton has a leg at all, and that I should back her "just in case" my guy loses? Let's see if my guy loses first, all right? All right.
It’s a strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It’s the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have everything to live for.
-- Ricky Gervais

Listen, Big Deal, we've got a bigger problem here. Women always figure out the truth. Always.
--Han Solo, The Force Awakens

SGOS

Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on August 01, 2015, 12:54:59 AM
BUMP! Sanders or Bust. Those of you that think Clinton has a leg at all, and that I should back her "just in case" my guy loses? Let's see if my guy loses first, all right? All right.
OK!

Cocoa Beware

#38
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 13, 2015, 06:37:45 PM
So a general distrust of politicians by default makes them all corrupt all the time,  huh? Heck, I distrust the monarchy so perhaps I should distrust and assume all Brits are criminals? Maybe all gay people are criminals. Maybe all atheists are criminals. Perhaps I'm a criminal.

I think that's a bit harsh.

I would never hold it against anyone for being reluctant to trust people in politics, their advertisements either paint an idyllic picture or serve to demonize the opposition; if you were to ask me the very nature of these ads makes it almost impossible for me to take them at face value as at least one side, (and there is a good chance both) are being deceptive to some degree. For example they exaggerate, selectively criticize, or fail to mention something pertinent like potential drawbacks.

However, since you guys endorse him, and on this board we are generally like-minded, I do find that in itself to be a good case for Sanders.

trdsf

Quote from: JBCuzISaidSo on August 01, 2015, 12:54:59 AM
BUMP! Sanders or Bust. Those of you that think Clinton has a leg at all, and that I should back her "just in case" my guy loses? Let's see if my guy loses first, all right? All right.
I'll certainly vote for Hillary in the fall before any of the idiots on the Other Side; there's no question in my mind that she has the intelligence and background to do the job, and do it well -- and as much as I like Obama, I think she's got more spine and would stand up to the teabaggers more firmly.

But until and unless she's the nominee, Sanders is my candidate, as he better represents my thinking; it's my hope that his presence in the campaign will bring not only Hillary, but the entire national debate, back towards at least the center.  It's lurched so far to the right, we're still debating things that every other industrialized democracy dealt with decades ago and that even their conservatives take for granted.

And who knows, he might surprise us all like another candidate did eight years ago.  But if not, I am secure in the knowledge that any of our candidates is a better bet than any of theirs, and the eventual nominee doesn't have to be my first pick in order to get my vote.  I don't have any truck with this PUMA bullshit.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

SkyChief

Bernie Sanders fancies himself a Socialist.  He would (politically) fare much better in a country which favors Socialism. Like in Europe or somewhere.  Anywhere but the US.   
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."    - Albert Einstein

Hydra009

Quote from: SkyChief on August 03, 2015, 12:27:48 PMBernie Sanders fancies himself a Socialist.  He would (politically) fare much better in a country which favors Socialism. Like in Europe or somewhere.  Anywhere but the US.
True, but the US is where this political stance is needed the most.  In the US, the right-wing stance is pervasive and even among Democrats, the best one can realistically hope for is a capable centrist Democrat prez.  And this alternatively centrist and right-wing governance hasn't addressed, much less dealt with, lots of longstanding problems around here.  Getting an actual progressive into the presidency would be a major upset.

JBCuzISaidSo

It’s a strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It’s the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have everything to live for.
-- Ricky Gervais

Listen, Big Deal, we've got a bigger problem here. Women always figure out the truth. Always.
--Han Solo, The Force Awakens

JBCuzISaidSo

It’s a strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It’s the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have everything to live for.
-- Ricky Gervais

Listen, Big Deal, we've got a bigger problem here. Women always figure out the truth. Always.
--Han Solo, The Force Awakens

NakedTracyBlack

I like Sanders a lot, but fear he has no shot at winning.  Socialism is still considered a dirty word in America.  People will vote against their own interests in hopes of one day being rich, or because they think anyone who needs help is just lazy.